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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fuck Oxfam

834 replies

DismantledKing · 05/06/2023 21:55

Anyone seen the tweet by Maya tonight about this little animation by Oxfam? Here’s the link:

https://twitter.com/mforstater/status/1665817901327085568?s=46&t=U7-xooKExwmFQ8mivn72lw

as I said, fuck Oxfam.

Fuck Oxfam
OP posts:
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69
Fireyflies · 06/06/2023 23:56

Just been having a look at some of the discussion about all this over on Twitter (just search Oxfam if you want to see the full range) Firstly, it's clear that 80-90% of the content is critical of Oxfam.

Secondly, there's some effort on their part to apologise and backtrack. But it's very guarded and reluctant. They say the woman was not meant to be anyone in particular (which I find unconvincing) but don't even show any understanding of the term terf bring a sexist slur, and their advert as fuelling hatred. They just reiterate support for trans people - clearly worried about losing their support of they're seem as caving in in the slightest.

PotteringPondering · 07/06/2023 00:04

Boiledbeetle · 06/06/2023 23:28

The fact that this is the first Pride Month being played out on Twitter without all the 'terf' accounts being silenced is probably a massive wake up call to these organisations that actually most people are not in agreement. Suddenly not all responses are happy and gushing. It must be rather a shock to discover that this year these companies can't get away with this shit.

Yes! Hadn't made that connection.

ScrollingLeaves · 07/06/2023 00:06

WhiteFire · Today 23:34
mommy Thank you for your insightful post

Thank you from me too, mommyisbest · Today 23:31, I found your reasoning based on your own beliefs, heritage and experience incisive as well as illuminating and inspiring.

dimorphism · 07/06/2023 00:14

The fact that this is the first Pride Month being played out on Twitter without all the 'terf' accounts being silenced is probably a massive wake up call to these organisations that actually most people are not in agreement

Really good point. It does demonstrate how the climate of fear and extreme levels of suppression of free speech on platforms such as twitter has lead to a total silencing of debate for a long time and to ever greater emperor new clothes style gaffes from supposedly professional organisations (which suddenly, don't look professional at all).

Datun · 07/06/2023 00:14

Fireyflies · 06/06/2023 23:56

Just been having a look at some of the discussion about all this over on Twitter (just search Oxfam if you want to see the full range) Firstly, it's clear that 80-90% of the content is critical of Oxfam.

Secondly, there's some effort on their part to apologise and backtrack. But it's very guarded and reluctant. They say the woman was not meant to be anyone in particular (which I find unconvincing) but don't even show any understanding of the term terf bring a sexist slur, and their advert as fuelling hatred. They just reiterate support for trans people - clearly worried about losing their support of they're seem as caving in in the slightest.

Can I ask, do you get the impression that they just blundered in in a sort of virtue signalling way and kind of wish they hadn't?

Or are they more committed than that?

Fireyflies · 07/06/2023 00:26

Datun · 07/06/2023 00:14

Can I ask, do you get the impression that they just blundered in in a sort of virtue signalling way and kind of wish they hadn't?

Or are they more committed than that?

The latter, sadly. I mean Oxfam is a big organisation and I don't doubt many within it wish they hadn't put that advert out. But the tone from the PR department is dismissive of any upset caused any clearly focused on reassuring trans people and allies that they have their backs. Someone posted a copy of their email sent to staff which concludes by saying they realise this publicity may have upset some of their trans colleagues and here's a support line for them, etc etc.

Clymene · 07/06/2023 00:28

Brilliant post @mommyisbest. I have to confess that I hadn't even thought about the fact that pluralism is what underpins their aid. But they don't extend that to their staff or supporters.

It feels deeply racist to me.

MerlinsLostMarbles · 07/06/2023 00:31

ResisterRex · 06/06/2023 22:48

It's a simple "happy pride month" message on Twitter and it is not even remotely comparable to the Oxfam debacle. To suggest as much is quite wrong. But is their Insta using Nazi-era imagery to depict "TERFs"? Have they trampled all over the memory of the dead by removing what absolutely looked like JKR's poppy? Have they shown Peppa and / or friends with mastectomy scars? Have they accused parents of online and offline hate?

The message includes the flag with the trans colours. That's bad, right?

Fuck Oxfam
Datun · 07/06/2023 00:36

Fireyflies · 07/06/2023 00:26

The latter, sadly. I mean Oxfam is a big organisation and I don't doubt many within it wish they hadn't put that advert out. But the tone from the PR department is dismissive of any upset caused any clearly focused on reassuring trans people and allies that they have their backs. Someone posted a copy of their email sent to staff which concludes by saying they realise this publicity may have upset some of their trans colleagues and here's a support line for them, etc etc.

Got it. Thanks. You'd think, wouldn't you, that the pushback on Twitter, from MPs and the prime minister would be ringing a few alarm bells.

Fireyflies · 07/06/2023 00:38

I hope it's ringing some alarm bells. Maybe way the top rather than whoever it is in charge of their PR department right now.

IwantToRetire · 07/06/2023 00:41

Datun · 06/06/2023 23:24

Damn, that's a good article.

She's fuming

I think much like the Times article this article is basically a precise of this thread.

Dont any of you who contribute to FWR value the contribution of others.

Or do the same words only have value when validated by a mainstream paper and a journalist giving them what the want?!

Boiledbeetle · 07/06/2023 00:43

MerlinsLostMarbles · 07/06/2023 00:31

The message includes the flag with the trans colours. That's bad, right?

Despicable Me Lol GIF

Is that it? Is that what we are supposed to be up in arms about? A flying pig? And a pride flag?

Boiledbeetle · 07/06/2023 00:45

And looking at the photo there is an actual proper ROYGBIV rainbow in the background. Haven't seen a seven colour rainbow depicted in a while.

TheBiologyStupid · 07/06/2023 00:45

When pigs fly, men still won't be women Merlin...

IcakethereforeIam · 07/06/2023 00:48

I've not seen Peppa Pig in years, I started boycotting it because
a) George was such a brat, Peppa too but especially George. Neither of those children were properly disciplined. They were dreadful examples for a young child.
b) Daddy pig was treated as a buffoon. If they'd mocked a female character like that there would be he'll to pay. He should really identify as a sow.
c) Mummy pig only wore one bikini top, have you seen the number of nipples on a sow? She'd have needed several.

IwantToRetire · 07/06/2023 00:48

@mommyisbest

Thank you for writing this to Oxfam, and thank you for sharing it here.

A reminder that this is another example of how a white european perspective, aggravated by point scoring, is prioritised by groups like Oxfam who have totally lost contact with the primary purpose, and in doing so also casually erase the reality of the communities they are saying they exist to help.

Just shameful

BlockbusterVideoCard · 07/06/2023 00:48

I don't normally do boycotting, but I think it's safe to say that I'm now done with Oxfam

they can get to fuck

I don't do much boycotting either although I do some. So, this.^^^^

I hope Oxfam are reading. And importantly, doing some critical thinking.

Boiledbeetle · 07/06/2023 00:48

IwantToRetire · 07/06/2023 00:41

I think much like the Times article this article is basically a precise of this thread.

Dont any of you who contribute to FWR value the contribution of others.

Or do the same words only have value when validated by a mainstream paper and a journalist giving them what the want?!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C739HTDK

I think this shows exactly how much i value the contribution of the women on the FWR board.

WandaWomblesaurus · 07/06/2023 01:13

MishyJDI · 06/06/2023 10:40

Well having read the vitriol in this thread and on twitter, have to hand it to Oxfam for calling out the anti LGBT hate and standing strong. Ethics over profits. Rare in this say and age. I'll certainly be shopping more there given their inclusion, and I dont feel as a woman excluded. Far from it.

Amputation enabler.

inamarina · 07/06/2023 06:26

mommyisbest · 06/06/2023 23:31

I’m a British Pakistani Muslim woman. I give to Oxfam and endeavour to make donations to Oxfam as well as shop at my local store in preference to other charity shops. I have a strong affinity to Oxfam because of its history of identifying need and tackling it.

I will no longer be supporting you. You have allowed your charitable purpose to be hijacked. What kept me loyal to Oxfam despite recent difficulties is that it is a charity that finds what needs to be done and seeks solutions without fear or favour. There is no scope for ideology in this. Everyone who is needy benefits. No questions are asked about people’s religious or political affiliation.

As a minority- ethnically and religiously- I depend on pluralism in order to express my culture and my religious beliefs. I don’t require anyone to validate my beliefs. I just need society to accept that I have my own beliefs. I don’t need anyone to say Salaam to me or call me sister and I don’t impose this on anyone. By the same token I don’t want to be forced to validate other people by modifying language to include concepts I don’t accept ie describing myself as cis or finding which pronoun suits me based on my sexuality or masculine/feminine leanings.

In discouraging the use of words such as male or female, modifying expressions that reference human biology, replacing one word for another such as prostitution for sex worker, you have pursued an ideological agenda which has nothing to do with your purpose or aims.

You have decided to champion that ideology in favour of other ideologies. When challenged on your dogmatic stance you have taken an unpluralist view by stating that it is the best ideology as it is, in your view, the most inclusive.

In saying this you disregard most people in the world who come from collectivist cultures where identity stems from family and community and not from Western notions of individualism where identify stems from pronouns or sexual orientation or gender identity.

That is not to say that collectivist cultures do not have active and vibrant LGBT people. But they are not asserting this in the same way and never have. To see all these LGBT people in such a monolithic way is to reduce and simplify even those people you think you are including. This is a form of cultural imperialism. Other countries have strong LGBT heritage and it’s not the same as yours.

Your latest attempt at evangelising, has led you to depict those of a different ideology (who believe biology is more important than socially constructed gender) as ugly, older women termed TERFS. Where will you go next? Will you depict Muslims similarly after all the Quran does not mention gender identity once? If you are to be consistent I don’t see that you have any choice.

For all these reasons I won’t have anything more to do with you.
Shazia

Great post 🙂

ResisterRex · 07/06/2023 07:03

mommyisbest · 06/06/2023 23:31

I’m a British Pakistani Muslim woman. I give to Oxfam and endeavour to make donations to Oxfam as well as shop at my local store in preference to other charity shops. I have a strong affinity to Oxfam because of its history of identifying need and tackling it.

I will no longer be supporting you. You have allowed your charitable purpose to be hijacked. What kept me loyal to Oxfam despite recent difficulties is that it is a charity that finds what needs to be done and seeks solutions without fear or favour. There is no scope for ideology in this. Everyone who is needy benefits. No questions are asked about people’s religious or political affiliation.

As a minority- ethnically and religiously- I depend on pluralism in order to express my culture and my religious beliefs. I don’t require anyone to validate my beliefs. I just need society to accept that I have my own beliefs. I don’t need anyone to say Salaam to me or call me sister and I don’t impose this on anyone. By the same token I don’t want to be forced to validate other people by modifying language to include concepts I don’t accept ie describing myself as cis or finding which pronoun suits me based on my sexuality or masculine/feminine leanings.

In discouraging the use of words such as male or female, modifying expressions that reference human biology, replacing one word for another such as prostitution for sex worker, you have pursued an ideological agenda which has nothing to do with your purpose or aims.

You have decided to champion that ideology in favour of other ideologies. When challenged on your dogmatic stance you have taken an unpluralist view by stating that it is the best ideology as it is, in your view, the most inclusive.

In saying this you disregard most people in the world who come from collectivist cultures where identity stems from family and community and not from Western notions of individualism where identify stems from pronouns or sexual orientation or gender identity.

That is not to say that collectivist cultures do not have active and vibrant LGBT people. But they are not asserting this in the same way and never have. To see all these LGBT people in such a monolithic way is to reduce and simplify even those people you think you are including. This is a form of cultural imperialism. Other countries have strong LGBT heritage and it’s not the same as yours.

Your latest attempt at evangelising, has led you to depict those of a different ideology (who believe biology is more important than socially constructed gender) as ugly, older women termed TERFS. Where will you go next? Will you depict Muslims similarly after all the Quran does not mention gender identity once? If you are to be consistent I don’t see that you have any choice.

For all these reasons I won’t have anything more to do with you.
Shazia

This is a really great post. Particularly your point about pluralism, it feels like we lost that somewhere along the way in recent times.

ResisterRex · 07/06/2023 07:08

Someone asked if this is in the print editions. It's in the Telegraph's:

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1362/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/1362/pub/1362/page/26/article/NaN

MrsJamin · 07/06/2023 08:00

If Oxfam's vision is to "fight inequality to end poverty and injustice", I still don't understand why they'd focus on transphobia towards transgender people compared to other forms of inequality. How many people are poor because of being identified as a transgender person? Where's their evidence? They are applying western values to struggling countries where they have totally different problems, including where women and girls are seen as worthless. It's probably why they resorted to making a cartoon as they couldn't film transgender people in developing countries who were poor because of it. Why are they making up a narrative that doesn't exist? Are they really "fighting inequality" in western countries instead?

PronounssheRa · 07/06/2023 08:14

Interesting titbit here

twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/166633782409688960

The head of influencing at oxfam used to work for stonewall

DerekFaker · 07/06/2023 08:21

PronounssheRa · 07/06/2023 08:14

Interesting titbit here

twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/166633782409688960

The head of influencing at oxfam used to work for stonewall

Was just coming here to post that.

It reallybis musical chairs at these places, that's how this atuff infiltrates them all.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/sam-dick-6142b329