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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Delphinium20 · 03/06/2023 16:52

What a little prick he is. I bet he doesn't dare do this in the US because we have men with guns. Instead, he hops across the pond because he's a coward who enjoys mistreating women.

LozengeShaped · 03/06/2023 16:54

Sorry, who Anna?
Giorgio was shopping with Anna and her mum, when this awfully traumatising incident occurred...

I just wonder whether this isn't some stunt to get followers for they's(!) tiktok account, if they(!) has/have one.

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 16:56

Smug is the default.
Or, has been up to now.
Because if the EHRC sex >>> gender recommendation is indeed ratified into law as promised by Sunak/Badenoch, then this Zara response will again become the correct one.
And only one.

And who the Hell is this woman Anna to first wave her friend thru into the wrong changing room, and then to stamp her feet when he is barred?
She's a disgrace to womanhood.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/06/2023 16:57

Hannahsbananas· Today 12:44
or have him wait for a convenient time when no women are waiting to try on clothes to go alone into the ladies’ if that’s all they have.
Why? Why must a man wearing male clothing (wonder where he tried that on? I’ll bet it wasn’t the ladies) be danced around like this because he fancied trying on some “gowns”

Does Zara’s in Oxford have a changing room for men? I said that before because I presumed they wouldn’t.

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 16:59

ScrollingLeaves · 03/06/2023 16:57

Hannahsbananas· Today 12:44
or have him wait for a convenient time when no women are waiting to try on clothes to go alone into the ladies’ if that’s all they have.
Why? Why must a man wearing male clothing (wonder where he tried that on? I’ll bet it wasn’t the ladies) be danced around like this because he fancied trying on some “gowns”

Does Zara’s in Oxford have a changing room for men? I said that before because I presumed they wouldn’t.

Order the clothes online and try them on at home in the changing room of your choice.
Your bedroom.
Just not your sister's or mum's.

BreatheAndFocus · 03/06/2023 17:02

Entitled, pathetic little man determined to try on some victimhood. FRO, Giorgio!

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 17:16

I don't think it's even just sexual with these guys.
Just the power trip and the props from humiliation.
Make as many females feel bad on any given day, a good day's work is done.

What I'm loving is that these characters are starting to realise the gig is up. They know their best days of boundary-busting with zero pushback are over.

That's why Kath Stock's talk at Oxford Uni was so critical. It will be seen to be the defining line in this morass of moral failure, over a decade now.

Even 12 months ago, our little bearded friend here would have been let in to the female changing room, or so screamed the house down that his views would have been given pre-eminence.

We all remember that poor teen girl in Primark several months ago.

Today? Him and his little transmaiden companion can't holler, their voices are hollow and fake, and heard this way loud and clear.

With Kath Stock showing infinite patience alongside the likes of JKR to calmly set out the parameters of free speech, that men cannot become women, and the impending EHRC clarification soon in parliament, the boundaries and definitions and expectations and framework are crystallising.

12 months ago, beardie here would have continued to make headlines. Today? He's yesterday's chip wrapper.

Hannahsbananas · 03/06/2023 17:18

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 17:16

I don't think it's even just sexual with these guys.
Just the power trip and the props from humiliation.
Make as many females feel bad on any given day, a good day's work is done.

What I'm loving is that these characters are starting to realise the gig is up. They know their best days of boundary-busting with zero pushback are over.

That's why Kath Stock's talk at Oxford Uni was so critical. It will be seen to be the defining line in this morass of moral failure, over a decade now.

Even 12 months ago, our little bearded friend here would have been let in to the female changing room, or so screamed the house down that his views would have been given pre-eminence.

We all remember that poor teen girl in Primark several months ago.

Today? Him and his little transmaiden companion can't holler, their voices are hollow and fake, and heard this way loud and clear.

With Kath Stock showing infinite patience alongside the likes of JKR to calmly set out the parameters of free speech, that men cannot become women, and the impending EHRC clarification soon in parliament, the boundaries and definitions and expectations and framework are crystallising.

12 months ago, beardie here would have continued to make headlines. Today? He's yesterday's chip wrapper.

Oh God, I hope you’re right 🤞

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 17:23

Hannah, as my GF would tell you, my predictions are terrible, lol.

But despite being absolutely pessimistic on this over time, I feel a step change, groundswell, change in wind direction.

There will be no specific "phew, that was weird!" moment.

This hydra is multi-headed.

But I believe we are at a general inflection point. This point may last 6 months, maybe 6 years. However I see the ship turning.

However the battlelines remain deep and entrenched. Maximum vigilance needed!

ApocalipstickNow · 03/06/2023 17:24

It should certainly be food for thought for anyone who thinks that the only men wanting to use women’s changing rooms are indistinguishable from women, vulnerable and surgically transitioned.

Its not. It’s this guy. And he thinks he has every right to be in there whatever the cost to others.

“No one would go to all that trouble!” is a desperate cry when all he’s done is put a dress on.

ArabeIIaScott · 03/06/2023 17:33

https://www.coloradocollege.edu/offices/butlercenter/people/a-pages_biographies/standard-page-gs.html

'I strongly believe that using your own privilege to promote inclusion and understanding is a moral duty that we should all strive for.'

By which he means using his male privilege to promote the inclusion of his male self in women's changing rooms, I suppose?

Good for Zara.

Program Assistant - Colorado College

https://www.coloradocollege.edu/offices/butlercenter/people/a-pages_biographies/standard-page-gs.html

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 17:44

Sorry, Race Ethnicity Migration Studies
...this is a degree in 2023?
FFS!

What a grift, degree and possible Masters in buggering around for years telling everyone the West is to blame for everything.

And as a sideline/hobby, pivoting from his white male privilege to make the world a better place for trans and NB...by victimising that other powerful biased group, women and other Karens.

Certainly he will see the female who barred him entry as an entitled Karen.

Expecting soon a podcast double header of non binary non entities, Riz and Giorgio, lol.

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 17:57

My God! He stormed past the hapless female assistant and used the female changing room anyway.

And the manager went on to apologise after he made his complaint.

And then words to the effect "looked up Zara, many occasions transphobic, my duty as privileged individual, personal pronouns break expectations, my mission to stop transphobia" blah blah.

Equal measure misogyny and 2023 levels of SJW pompousness. Off the scale.

WhiteFire · 03/06/2023 18:09

“No one would go to all that trouble!” is a desperate cry when all he’s done is put a dress on.

He didn't even put the dress on, it was just slung over his shoulder.

jotunn · 03/06/2023 18:15

ScrollingLeaves · 03/06/2023 16:57

Hannahsbananas· Today 12:44
or have him wait for a convenient time when no women are waiting to try on clothes to go alone into the ladies’ if that’s all they have.
Why? Why must a man wearing male clothing (wonder where he tried that on? I’ll bet it wasn’t the ladies) be danced around like this because he fancied trying on some “gowns”

Does Zara’s in Oxford have a changing room for men? I said that before because I presumed they wouldn’t.

Yes it does

viques · 03/06/2023 18:16

I like the way Giorgio is defensively clutching his balls. Is he worried a mean TERF will come along and snip them off with her witchy fingers?

ArabeIIaScott · 03/06/2023 18:20

On the other hand, Giorgio has a face that will peak a thousand ships.

Bravo, Giorgio, for speaking up so bravely! Keep on sticking it to the (wo)man!

nepeta · 03/06/2023 18:21

The nonbinary category, from the beginning, seems to have been proposed as a category of unlimited privileges, even in places with no self-identity. It allows a person to change nothing about the way they look, dress, or act, but still demand access to all sexed spaces.

I have seen transgender organisations state that nonbinary people should be allowed to compete in sports in whichever category they decide to, to use male and female toilets, based on how they feel, to access all single-sex facilities and so on.

I have also noted that certain nonbinary female people are very vocal online about the importance of erasing the word 'women' in all reproductive and other health information, because "they need it, too, and they are not women."

So here inclusiveness seems to expand the rights of one group to break all boundaries while other groups have more limitations put on them (such as women not being allowed to refuse a male person entry to a dressing room, or not being allowed to have a name for their actual biological group).

The gender fluid version suggests that some individuals could have two identity cards, depending on the day and on how they feel that day about their genders etc.

This is interesting because it doesn't come with the same burdens as being transgender (no expectation of bodily changes etc), doesn't reduce the male privilege for any male person (as they can just choose to be taken as men when it suits them), and, perhaps sadly, will not reduce the sex-based discrimination and misuse for nonbinary female people that women will face in most societies (as misogyny won't choose its prey on the basis of pronouns).

It's also interesting when you think of the old argument that third genders have existed in many societies, because in most of them third genders were about gay men, and in almost all of them belonging to the third gender came with many rules and limitations about how the person could otherwise live. The new version is nothing like that.

viques · 03/06/2023 18:25

LozengeShaped · 03/06/2023 16:54

Sorry, who Anna?
Giorgio was shopping with Anna and her mum, when this awfully traumatising incident occurred...

I just wonder whether this isn't some stunt to get followers for they's(!) tiktok account, if they(!) has/have one.

Not just traumatising, it was actually dehumanising. Which is why Giorgio now identifies as a non binary dog.

RealityFan · 03/06/2023 18:29

nepeta · 03/06/2023 18:21

The nonbinary category, from the beginning, seems to have been proposed as a category of unlimited privileges, even in places with no self-identity. It allows a person to change nothing about the way they look, dress, or act, but still demand access to all sexed spaces.

I have seen transgender organisations state that nonbinary people should be allowed to compete in sports in whichever category they decide to, to use male and female toilets, based on how they feel, to access all single-sex facilities and so on.

I have also noted that certain nonbinary female people are very vocal online about the importance of erasing the word 'women' in all reproductive and other health information, because "they need it, too, and they are not women."

So here inclusiveness seems to expand the rights of one group to break all boundaries while other groups have more limitations put on them (such as women not being allowed to refuse a male person entry to a dressing room, or not being allowed to have a name for their actual biological group).

The gender fluid version suggests that some individuals could have two identity cards, depending on the day and on how they feel that day about their genders etc.

This is interesting because it doesn't come with the same burdens as being transgender (no expectation of bodily changes etc), doesn't reduce the male privilege for any male person (as they can just choose to be taken as men when it suits them), and, perhaps sadly, will not reduce the sex-based discrimination and misuse for nonbinary female people that women will face in most societies (as misogyny won't choose its prey on the basis of pronouns).

It's also interesting when you think of the old argument that third genders have existed in many societies, because in most of them third genders were about gay men, and in almost all of them belonging to the third gender came with many rules and limitations about how the person could otherwise live. The new version is nothing like that.

I'd love to hang out in First Class on planes and at the best restaurants. I can't afford them.

I'd like to have a recording contract or book writing advance. I'm not good enough.

I'd like to have endless beautiful eye candy on my arm. I'm not Aidan Turner (it's true).

I'd like to win Euro Squillions. I don't have the winning ticket.

We can't all have what we want.

Oh, you wanna access women's sport, spaces etc, but you're not a woman?

The rules don't apply anymore. You're back to being 7, and assuming the world will fit around you.

Trans and NB, for the privileges you expect as a 7 year old, now as an adult.

ApocalipstickNow · 03/06/2023 18:37

nepeta · 03/06/2023 18:21

The nonbinary category, from the beginning, seems to have been proposed as a category of unlimited privileges, even in places with no self-identity. It allows a person to change nothing about the way they look, dress, or act, but still demand access to all sexed spaces.

I have seen transgender organisations state that nonbinary people should be allowed to compete in sports in whichever category they decide to, to use male and female toilets, based on how they feel, to access all single-sex facilities and so on.

I have also noted that certain nonbinary female people are very vocal online about the importance of erasing the word 'women' in all reproductive and other health information, because "they need it, too, and they are not women."

So here inclusiveness seems to expand the rights of one group to break all boundaries while other groups have more limitations put on them (such as women not being allowed to refuse a male person entry to a dressing room, or not being allowed to have a name for their actual biological group).

The gender fluid version suggests that some individuals could have two identity cards, depending on the day and on how they feel that day about their genders etc.

This is interesting because it doesn't come with the same burdens as being transgender (no expectation of bodily changes etc), doesn't reduce the male privilege for any male person (as they can just choose to be taken as men when it suits them), and, perhaps sadly, will not reduce the sex-based discrimination and misuse for nonbinary female people that women will face in most societies (as misogyny won't choose its prey on the basis of pronouns).

It's also interesting when you think of the old argument that third genders have existed in many societies, because in most of them third genders were about gay men, and in almost all of them belonging to the third gender came with many rules and limitations about how the person could otherwise live. The new version is nothing like that.

This is an excellent point.

GretaGip · 03/06/2023 19:04

This feels very different from when Travis (iirc?) tried a similar stunt in Top Shop a wee while ago.

MavisMcMinty · 03/06/2023 19:10

Well gosh, hope I’m not genociding anyone here, but what an attention-seeking prick. Does they really think they’s furthering them’s cause?

TracyBeakerSoYeah · 03/06/2023 19:15

All this non binary business is ridiculous. You are either male or female (though I am aware of people born intersex)

He is a man & the Zara sales assistants were right not to let him in the FEMALE changing rooms.
Personally I'd have marched him into the men's changing rooms!