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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Insurrection in the toilets

185 replies

Wasityou · 02/06/2023 18:33

Popped to the loo in a supermarket earlier and THIS greeted me when I closed the door.

Not that I condone graffiti, but can't help admiring the woman who felt compelled to write that.

Insurrection in the toilets
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 07:24

Boiledbeetle · 03/06/2023 23:07

It's late and i know I'm tired but for a moment I was wondering where Naebotherhen was located!

Capital city of said island!

CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/06/2023 07:58

I'd love to see some factual stickers that dispel the false info from the TRAs, eg about the reality of puberty blockers, the suicide and murder rate pre and post transitioning, and trans-women are actually a subset of men not women. I'm unsure how much of the population really understand the basics (eg what a transwoman or transman actually is) so default to "be kind". How many read "transwoman" and think it must be a woman who is trying to look like a man? It's not intuitive language at all IMO

PoseyFlump · 04/06/2023 08:14

We're gonna need a bigger boat.

Moomoola · 04/06/2023 08:33

CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/06/2023 07:58

I'd love to see some factual stickers that dispel the false info from the TRAs, eg about the reality of puberty blockers, the suicide and murder rate pre and post transitioning, and trans-women are actually a subset of men not women. I'm unsure how much of the population really understand the basics (eg what a transwoman or transman actually is) so default to "be kind". How many read "transwoman" and think it must be a woman who is trying to look like a man? It's not intuitive language at all IMO

Yes!

OldGardinia · 04/06/2023 08:49

CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/06/2023 07:58

I'd love to see some factual stickers that dispel the false info from the TRAs, eg about the reality of puberty blockers, the suicide and murder rate pre and post transitioning, and trans-women are actually a subset of men not women. I'm unsure how much of the population really understand the basics (eg what a transwoman or transman actually is) so default to "be kind". How many read "transwoman" and think it must be a woman who is trying to look like a man? It's not intuitive language at all IMO

"But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought. [...] This invasion of one's mind by ready-made phrases (lay the foundations, achieve a radical transformation) can only be prevented if one is constantly on guard against them, and every such phrase anaesthetizes a portion of one's brain.”
― George Orwell, Politics and the English Language

"It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words."
― George Orwell, Symes, 1984

"'Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. [...] 'Has it ever occurred to you, Winston, that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be alive who could understand such a conversation as we are having now?'
― George Orwell, Symes, 1984

Orwell wasn't coming up with this stuff out of whole cloth. He was drawing on actual real world history. The control of language has long been a favoured tool of those who want to control others. The very declaration "transwomen are women" which we've all heard asserted is an assault on language and an attempt to force a new definition which was never the old.

Words and symbolism are powerful things. Most of the trans movement's success is achieved by what? By sticking T on the end of LGB. Does it have much to do with sexual orientation? Not directly. Does it have to do with freeing people from gender roles? Perversely it's dependent on gender roles. And yet via groups like Stonewall, it presents to people that it's some extension of the LGB movement and gains sympathy, legitimacy and funding. It's long piggy backed on sexual orientation but never been the same. Hell, the body dysmorphia of an adolescent girl uncomfortable with the changes of puberty is not the same thing as an auto-gynephillic adult man cross-dressing for sexual reasons but both get classed as "trans". Why? Because the same word is used. If gender dysphoria and auto-gynephilia were the common and specific terms then we as a society would have no difficulty separating the two and dealing with them differently, getting help for the former and being able to socially condemn the latter. But we don't - we say "trans", a blanket, obscuring term and are rendered powerless.

Maybe I should write up a short essay on language and symbolism in the trans movement the better to help people push back. For example, how do you popularise a disassociation of LGB and TQ? Doing so is the most effective way of hindering trans targetting of kids and of preventing blow back on regular same-sex attracted people from the excesses of the gender specials and "dealing with sex-negative kids" crowd. For example, I'm playing around with symbolism like writing LGBTQ. A strikethrough of the TQ part. It's simple, easily done in both graphical and textual format and it makes clear one:

  1. You support the right to same sex attraction
  2. You're actively rejecting the blurring of that with the trans and current Progressive lobby.
  3. Is easy for others to emulate.

Seeing LGBTQ in places is infinitely quicker and more easily assimilated than even a short essay on how Trans and Sexual Orientation aren't really the same thing. Ditto I'm going to regularly use the terms Autogynephilic and Gender Dysphoric whenever I'm talking about one of these groups to actively highlight the difference between the two rather than both falling under a "trans" word.

Symbolism, language... these things matter. 2022 made 1984 look like 1967. Insurrection was precisely the right term that was used for the thread title used by @Wasityou with it's connotations of active pushback and uprising. Time is past for using some of the same tools that have been used against us. For all their money and influence, we have one great advantage on our side: reality.

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them."
― George Orwell,

Moomoola · 04/06/2023 08:54

oldgardinia brilliantly phrased.
I struggled to explain why the word trans is so disturbing - this is so helpful. Thank you.
Hell, the body dysmorphia of an adolescent girl uncomfortable with the changes of puberty is not the same thing as an auto-gynephillic adult man cross-dressing for sexual reasons but both get classed as "trans". Why? Because the same word is used. If gender dysphoria and auto-gynephilia were the common and specific terms then we as a society would have no difficulty separating the two and dealing with them differently, getting help for the former and being able to socially condemn the latter. But we don't - we say "trans", a blanket, obscuring term and are rendered powerless.

Waitwhat23 · 04/06/2023 08:58

The best stickers I've seen with facts/ statistics etc are from here -

wildwomynworkshop.com/category-product/sticker/activist-sticker-packs/

OldGardinia · 04/06/2023 08:59

Moomoola · 04/06/2023 08:54

oldgardinia brilliantly phrased.
I struggled to explain why the word trans is so disturbing - this is so helpful. Thank you.
Hell, the body dysmorphia of an adolescent girl uncomfortable with the changes of puberty is not the same thing as an auto-gynephillic adult man cross-dressing for sexual reasons but both get classed as "trans". Why? Because the same word is used. If gender dysphoria and auto-gynephilia were the common and specific terms then we as a society would have no difficulty separating the two and dealing with them differently, getting help for the former and being able to socially condemn the latter. But we don't - we say "trans", a blanket, obscuring term and are rendered powerless.

Thanks for the kind response. It makes me think that a proper essay on symbolism and language use in the context of the trans movement might actually be useful to some. I'll just have to find a good place to post it. Substack, maybe? ¯\ (ツ)

In the meantime, I'm going to try using LGBTQ whereever I can. I think that is a simple and effective way to try and begin disassociating sexual orientation from the trans movement and it shows pushback from LGB itself.

OldGardinia · 04/06/2023 09:00

Waitwhat23 · 04/06/2023 08:58

The best stickers I've seen with facts/ statistics etc are from here -

wildwomynworkshop.com/category-product/sticker/activist-sticker-packs/

Nice. Hadn't seen that before.

IcakethereforeIam · 04/06/2023 09:05

@OldGardinia I'm glad I read your long post, brilliant. Definitely write it up somewhere and tweet it to everyone. Or, if you're not on twitter, someone tweet if for her.

Please.

Thank you.

FrancescaContini · 04/06/2023 09:08

Great post, @OldGardinia , thank you - particularly for the Orwell quotes.

PurpleBugz · 04/06/2023 09:17

Yes thank you @OldGardinia very good post.

I will be adopting use of LGBTQ from now on. Very clear message in that

OldGardinia · 04/06/2023 09:19

PurpleBugz · 04/06/2023 09:17

Yes thank you @OldGardinia very good post.

I will be adopting use of LGBTQ from now on. Very clear message in that

Thank you everybody for the encouragement. I'm not on Twitter. Well, I was suspended about four years ago for a post which said "trans in adolescent girls correlates with autism".

Maybe I'll re-register and I'll see if I can write something up.

I singled out the post above to reply to because I really appreciate someone also picking up the LGBTQ thing. I think it might have some mileage in it.

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 09:41

I look forward to that essay, Old Gardinia!

CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/06/2023 09:42

Waitwhat23 · 04/06/2023 08:58

The best stickers I've seen with facts/ statistics etc are from here -

wildwomynworkshop.com/category-product/sticker/activist-sticker-packs/

Perfect, just what I was looking for! Thank you! 😃

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 09:42

I'm not sure about the crossing out. I think using LGB alone is simple and elegant and works very well. This is the strength of the LGB alliance.

OhYeahDefinitely · 04/06/2023 09:44

Somebody stuck an adult human female sticker over Eddie Izzard’s face on a poster advertising his theatre show (On the tube). Wanted to take a pic but the tube was packed and I felt conspicuous.

Put a smile on my face.

CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/06/2023 09:59

Beautifully put @OldGardinia 😎

Loving the stickered Eddie Izzard @OhYeahDefinitely 😆

CrazyArmadilloLady · 04/06/2023 10:26

Thank you for your post @OldGardinia - so many lightbulbs turning on.

OldGardinia · 04/06/2023 10:31

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 09:42

I'm not sure about the crossing out. I think using LGB alone is simple and elegant and works very well. This is the strength of the LGB alliance.

LGB Alliance are great and are attempting to do the same as I am. LGBTQ is more visible than simply omitting letters. If someone wishes to actively push back on the idea that T should piggy back on the gay rights social movement, I think you need something a bit more assertive to penetrate in the public mind. Remember there are a lot of people that still think you are "born trans" and that it's a natural bedfellow of LGB.

Nothing stops people from also just omitting the letters if they want something less confrontational. Same goal, different tones. But I believe many of us are at the point that we think active counter-messaging is something we need, something showing regular public that actual LGB are not on board with the entryism of the trans movement. I'm also old enough that I've never really stopped thinking of "queer" as a slur, fwiw.

RoyalCorgi · 04/06/2023 12:19

AutumnCrow · 03/06/2023 20:37

Aye, but honi soit qui mal y pense

Excellent, Autumn. That's another thing I like about our side - we're both much cleverer and much funnier than the opposition.

PurpleBugz · 04/06/2023 12:39

I agree. Simply omitting the TQ may read as separating gender from sexual orientation to some but many will just assume it's old fashioned or lazy cant be bothered to type out all the letters. Like we see LGBT often instead of LGBTQIA+. If you actually cross out TQ it's a very quick clear message

Naebotherhen · 04/06/2023 13:41

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 07:24

Capital city of said island!

Welcome to Terf Island. Passport please.... Yes that's fine, everything is I'm order. You may now enter Naebotherhen. Enjoy your stay.

TerfIslandResident · 04/06/2023 13:45

Naebotherhen · 04/06/2023 13:41

Welcome to Terf Island. Passport please.... Yes that's fine, everything is I'm order. You may now enter Naebotherhen. Enjoy your stay.

Naebotherhen is such a lovely place. The architecture is sublime. The women delightful. The men.....what men?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 04/06/2023 13:46

The crossed out version looks like the B is crossed out too.