Frustrating conversation with NB sister

[pastatriangles]

'I don't want to be called a cis woman.' (Me)
'I will call you cis because that's what you are.'
'What would you say if a transwoman wanted to be called a woman?'
'I would call her a woman.'
'You wouldn't insist on calling them a trans woman because that's what they are?'
...

It's so frustrating how many women and girls don't realise this movement is actually the pinnacle of male entitlement, to the point of them taking over womanhood for themselves. And the refusal to see it when confronted with it.

end rant.

I was just writing out a post about penispreferringlesbians and vaginapreferring lesbians. You beat me to it!

If we go by the definition of

A trans person does not identify as the same gender as the sex that they were assigned at birth

then gender critical women (and men) are in fact trans gender as they do not identify as the gender that has been assigned to match their sex.

Ah! On the same wavelength.

Although the TRA version is worse, really. Clarifying that a lesbian is homosexual or prefers vaginas is silly and redundant, but not inaccurate. 'Cis' implies being happy with gendered stereotypes. I guess the old 'women-born women' phrasing was too terfy for them.

Does anyone seriously think that if trans was all or predominantly one way ie females becoming males, leading to opportunities taken from men, money making and sports at risk, the new trans men finger wagging at locker room/jock/alpha behaviour in men's spaces, pornography and prostitution/lap dancing succesfully extinguished by the new trans men, in short where men were absolutely stymied socially and financially by trans men, that men would ever have allowed this phenomenon to take root?

No, men would either have assaulted (or worse) trans men in increasing numbers to stop the movement dead, men at heads of governments and bureaucracies would have sat on legislation, trans men wouldn't have had a sniff of power.

Oh. Just like women over time.

Men wouldn't stand for it. Blacks and other PoC have zero tolerance for the trans racial grift from the likes of Rachel Dolezal and Senator Elizabeth Warren. Thus male and black identity stays unadulterated.

Women? This craze was not nipped in the bud. You were encouraged, nay obliged, by men in power and their little transmaidens to not shout out, to accept, to bend over.

And while all that happened, the Cis affectation bled into the discourse, the Trans child and suicide ideation meme invaded the culture. And elites impolite society coalesced into the defensive line we see today.

How you get back this decade of trans advancement at your expense, I really don't know.

I'd seriously contend there's more chance of Zelensky ousting Putin than there is in women ousting trans activism and the co-opting of your sex class and societal norms.

A) not according to stonewall. Perhaps you should take this up with them https://www.sad.scot.nhs.uk/bereavement/supporting-lgbtplus-people-around-bereavement/lgbtplus-definitions/

B) When you start entering the realm of trans ideology (which you are if you call me cis), my gender identity is at odds with your idea of that which matches the sex identified at, or pre, birth, because to not be at odds it would have to be quite old fashioned and would involve some notion of femininity which I don't have or want to have.

So I'm not cis. You're misgendering and trying to deny my existence. You're being literally violent.

Yeah it's really odd.
She doesn't act superior or anything - my other family (same aged cousins) actually act much more that way in her defense.
She has autism and believes that feeling different is due to gender identity.
But in general it seems as if feminism/women's rights have become uncool and passe even in progressive circles.
To the point that my sister is interning in America and campaigning for children's right to 'gender based care' as a 'life-or-death issue,' but has no interest in abortion rights - which actually IS a life-or-death issue.

I find it amazing posters here get told off for not using preferred terms and not respecting gender identities but when they ask for the same courtesy it’s all “nah.”

Whereby our analogy falls down is that the category woman includes both straight a d gay women. They share their common biology. Tw and women have no similarities. There is nothing tw have in common with most women that women don't also have in common with other males, save for those few women who do identify themselves as cis.

So the categories are actually men and women. TW are men. We call them TW to not trigger people who find those facts hard to cope with.

She's ignorant and immature.

If you feel, or have internalised, that there's no real difference btwn males and females save for gender identity, then "female" issues are irrelevant.

Hey. Women have equal rights, nothing they can't do, no man can say no to a woman getting ahead at work, when to have a baby, whether or not to settle down, whether or not to into sex work.

Ditto gays...they've got Pride and gay marriage, yes?

So as a Gen Z proto feminist, you see women's and gay rights as settled.

What riles you instead as an intersectional feminist...Greening the environment, decolonising the West, fighting in George Floyd's memory...and battling the great battle for the last beleagured minority, trans and NB.

As a young female and feminist, womens rights have been done, and indeed GC women have so benefitted, they're now the enemy.

As a bunch of young activist women at Oxford Uni who they idolise more...Emily Pankhurst and Germaine Greer, or Judith Butler and Dylan Mulvaney...I think you might all balk at the answer.

Tell her you identify as a woman and there is to be no debate about it.

I do get fed up with people (here looking at you Tea, but also OP’s sister, you’re definitely not the only one) who want to assume that anybody who doesn’t declare their gender is cis. How come you get to define someone else’s gender, and indeed, whether or not they have one?

As pp’s have said, misgendering is bad, unless it’s addressed to actual women, beeee kind, unless it’s to actual women etc

Do any of you know what cis means?

Comfortable in skin

So if that is offensive, are you NOT comfortable in your skin? 🤷‍♀️

Genuinely confused as to why it's deemed offensive.

I'm a woman. I'm a cis woman. I'm a middle aged woman. I'm a divorced woman. I'm a single woman. I'm a straight woman. I'm an overweight woman. I'm a working woman. I'm an intelligent woman.

I could go on.

They're all just adjectives.

I know what cis means, thanks, and ‘comfortable in skin’ is a naff little back-construction.

Comfortable in skin?! I have a bit of a rash. Does that make me trans?

Plus, there are plenty of adjectives I don't want applied to me, thanks. Some are inaccurate, and I reject them, and some are offensive.

Yes, but there are adjectives and then there are bollox 'nouveau' adjectives that have been imposed by the thought police. Cis only appeared on the scene a few years ago - imagine someone calling themselves a cis woman in 1995 - it would have meant nothing.

So it's not a natural descriptor that would have always called yourself, instead it's something you are being told to say recently in order to align yourself within a gender ideology (one that many of us don't agree with). It's a signifier that you go along with this bollox.

Do any of you know what cis means?

Comfortable in skin

That's what it means to you. But someone just made that up, and very recently too. What "cis" means to me is "subset of women" and I'm not having that.

Do you know what "foolish person" means? It means wonderful clever person. How come you don't know that? Foolish is just an adjective too. Can I call you foolish now?

Once more for the people at the back:

Your sex is NOT assigned at birth. Your sex is NOT assigned at any point.

Your sex is determined at conception, depending on which sex-chromosome the sperm is carrying; they carry Y or X. The ova always carry X.
So if the sperm that fertilizes the egg carries another X you have XX= female. If it carries a Y you have XY= male.

Then - here’s the exciting part - the sex is OBSERVED in utero (if you can see a penis OR the lips of labia in the ultrasound)
or at birth.

Trans and Cis are chemistry terms. Molecules are built up in different ways …

Never you mind, we’ll do chemistry next time.

I find it utterly predictable.

We all know what cis means and we all know that what you have here is completely, wilfully disingenuous. And you know it too.

It's funny you use those words 'so you can force people like me to express views that I don't believe'.
This is exactly how I feel about being expected to call a man in a dress a transwoman. He is not a woman and never will be. But his special feelings somehow trump my reality.

That is NOT what cis means. Not by a long stretch.
See my post just above.
Feel free to Google chemistry cis and trans. It is really quite fun and interesting. Chemistry, that is.

See the article in ‘Glamour’ for an example of this instance, although willingly entered into , not a subsequent clarification of gender identity by either party. I have posted a transcript on this board.

Do any of you know what cis means?

Comfortable in skin

It doesn't mean that, it means "I subscribe to the ideology where males can be women, and I must define myself in relation to those males".