Cancel Culture and The Chilling Effect - a thread to share your experiences

[ArabeIIaScott]

Does the 'chilling effect' or 'cancel culture' affect you?

This is an anonymous forum, so we can speak relatively openly. But how do we speak in real life?

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Would you raise it at work?
Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
At home?
On social media?

Are women able to speak about these issues?
Have you done so and experienced consequences?

I think the effects of these issues have far reaching consequences that we really have hardly seen reported or looked at so far. How's it affecting society, women in society, relations between groups?

Thanks.

I dropped out of Uni because of it.

I speak about it to family and close friends, that's it.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly? No
Would you raise it at work? I'm self employed.
Would you/do you raise it with your child's school? No, although I would if there was a particular issue.
At home? Ooh no. Conversation came up once with teens, one cried and the other shouted at me. Now keeping quiet for a quiet life!
On social media? Have liked some posts that friends have shared from e.g. FPFW, but I'm not a big social media user (I am not on Twitter).

I've discussed it with a friendly colleague and talked about why I understand JKR was cancelled in an open forum but I'm pretty confident that being GC in my public sector workplace would end my career.

I discuss it with most of my friends and we generally agree. One friend doesn't but has many close trans friends.

One pre-teen child has gone full circle from 'Mummy's a transphobe' to Mummy is right but the other one isn't interested.

I do not ever post on social media about the subject as I am scared of losing my job.

I talk about it to some friends but one person has gone full circle and I keep my mouth shut now as I think it would seriously damage the friendship. At home they are sick of listening to me but I don't have ranting snowflake teens thankfully so while generally uninterested their are no tears or dramatics and they don't disagree
At work sure if it comes up but I work with a v v sensible and down to earth bunch so not those easily wrapped up in the "be kind" mantra

I speak to trusted friends on WhatsApp about it. I avoid all conversation in public on the topic and steer it away asap. Yes, that's chilling I suppose.

Openly GC at work and irl, as are many of my colleagues. Keep quiet to my next door neighbour as they have a " trans child" (gay male) as they are the type that would make someone's life hell.

I don't work and Dd is an adult but it's on my Social media and all my friends know.
I kept quiet for four years first though and lost a few friends when I first spoke, but I've nothing left to lose now and I feel much better for being honest.

I have learned the hard way not to discuss these matters in a group. You only need one person to disagree with you and suddenly everyone else takes fright and turns against you to signal their virtue. The backlash can be horrendous and very upsetting - I had to endure people making comments about me in front of me and suddenly it was assumed I was a GC monster with no feelings, or that I deserved everything I got. And this was from people who've known me for decades and whom I counted as friends.

I will discuss it with individual people quietly but some don't want to have those discussions, which is fine and I'm not going to push it because it will damage the friendship. Others do want to talk and are sometimes glad to have found someone of a similar mindset and then we are free to discuss less quietly!

My social media are separated; I have GC accounts and 'me' accounts and there is nothing on my GC accounts to link to me in real life. Only a handful of people whom I trust know my identity.

I have been ostracised from both career-related social groups and feminist groups both online and in real life. I would say these events have been pretty psychologically devastating to me. It is disturbing to have people turn against you and shun you because you say ‘a man can’t be a woman and a woman can’t be a man’. Even those people who contact you privately, to say they agree and think you’ve been treated unfairly, disturb you, because you know that your public and humiliating ostracism has effectively been a show trial, silencing others from speaking out.

I am careful how I broach the subject generally.

I am careful what I say when my children have friends over because I don’t want them to be ostracised by their more stridently pro-transgenderist friends, so in a way I am not even ‘safe’ as it were, in my own home, to speak my mind sometimes.

There’s always a judgement to be made - is speaking the truth worth the likely fallout I am likely to suffer in my life as a result? I generally take the fallout for myself, but won’t if it could affect my kids.

For me the most upsetting things is the way I feel I have to be around one of my children, because I want to keep the communication open and the trust there. I need to let a lot of things that trouble me slide, in order that they don’t clam up completely.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Yes. But then I've always said what I think without a thought to the consequences!

Would you raise it at work?
Not at work so N/A but yes I would have done due to the answer above.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
no children but my friend says if she has any shit with her grandkids school at some point she's taking me with her to sort it out!

At home?
Yes to the neighbours, to anyone I bump into. I spend a lot of time at doctors and hospitals and I'm very vocal then.

On social media?
Yes on here. But On Twitter I avoid getting into twitter spats with the TRAs as it's not worth it. The two sides of the argument are to polarised to be able to discuss it rationally on there.

Are women able to speak about these issues?
The women I know who know what's going on are all vocal in day to day life about the issues. The women who don't really understand just ignore it's happening as they aren't confident enough in their views either way to get involved.

Have you done so and experienced consequences?
I haven't. But I work on the assumption that the person I'm talking to is sensible and rational and of course agrees with me. I've never had any push back. But I'm not sure if it's because those i speak to either agree with me or are scared of me.

I appreciate I'm in the privileged position of being able to not give a fuck for fear of repercussions. But my character is no different now to what it was when I was employed and had a reputation to protect.

I'm also of an age where Im watching the work of previous generations, and myself, work to bring equality to women that I'm way way to pissed off to keep quiet.

We fought too long and too hard to let it all be taken away from us now because of the way some people internally feel.

No. Just no!

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
No I am very cautious and yes I feel censored.

Would you raise it at work?
Tentatively with a couple of like minded women (I am a teacher) but I cannot be open about it at all as I would be in serious bother with SLT/the very pro-trans young female teacher brigade and certain students who I know would report me if they heard anything that was not 100% pro-trans.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
See above.

At home?
Yes but have captured family members who it is not worth discussing it with. One is a GP!

On social media?
Only use MN.

Thanks, everyone.

I'm sorry for those who have lost friends, or family, or study or work because of this.

I'm sorry too that these issues seem to have introduced a kind of generalised caution and wariness into so many of our social interactions.

I've been politically active- moderately so - all my adult life and have never encountered a subject as divisive or chilling as this.

How do we even record or recognise this effect? Reem Alsalem of the UN recently reported on it and I'm grateful. But increasingly I think we need some kind of reconciliation process to help reveal and heal the damage done to society.

How many women self exclude from groups or activities? Drop out of education, turn down jobs, shy away from events, avoid interactions? How many social networks damaged or destroyed? How many friendships lost?

How much damage has already been done to women is my question. It's hard to quantify especially because so many are afraid to even ask questions. Let alone speak up. Bur maybe we can prompt someone to look into this.

I've just gone and read the others replies as i didn't want them to influence my responses.

I'm not surprised to see how many are being silenced in one way or another. It's the pernicious effect of the influences of the trans activists writ large all over women's lives and speech.

Fuckers!

Hugs to all that find themselves having to bite their tongue and moderate their words and thoughts. This shouldn't be happening in 2023

💐

How many women self exclude from groups or activities? Drop out of education, turn down jobs, shy away from events, avoid interactions? How many social networks damaged or destroyed? How many friendships lost?

I have absolutely stepped away from events. One hobby of mine has a lot of student groups/societies involved and consequently there is a lot of "be kind"-ness and emphasis on inclusivity from organisers and other participants. I keep my head firmly down as there are those in such circles whom I've mistakenly let know that I'm GC, and I've already been blanked by some people. I can absolutely imagine people saying my presence is "problematic" so I don't want to find myself ostracised further or worse.

I have been quite open about it in the past on social media. Lost a few friends, but no-one close. One good friend, who is my ideological polar opposite and identifies as non-binary, has remained in touch and we know that our friendship (so far) is more important than ideology. She has actually unfriended some people who were apparently awful to me online, because she's clear that any dissent needs to be measured, as do I. I'm less open now on my feed, but mainly because I don't want to lose my account rather than my friends.

In 'real life', I talk openly among friends, many of whom are in agreement - though we all have varying viewpoints when it comes to the minutiae of things. I will talk openly, but perhaps more quietly, in public.

I reserve my opinions at work because I am in a school environment and while I would be more than happy to sit and talk to anyone face-to-face, having my viewpoints passed around second-, third-, fourth-hand would not help the children who are currently questioning their sexuality and where they fit into the gender identity narrative. (Hate that word; can't think of another one.) If my job were threatened because of my beliefs and I were told I needed to change in some way that was untenable to me, I would leave before compromising my integrity in that way. Though I would try my utmost to seek out common ground and conversation first. I don't fear losing my job, and I know I'm lucky in that respect.

At home, partner and kids share similar thoughts and feelings, so there is a lot of harmony, and I am very grateful for that.

I have been in several situations that have become heated, one particularly at a dinner where I was called a transphobe. However, I've learned how to shift most circumstances so that conversation is possible, and we left the conversation peacefully and amicably. My primary tactic: to turn the questions and conversation on to my accuser/interlocutor - to get them to talk about themselves, and what they believe - and to find common ground, no matter how small that piece of ground is. If they are verging into what looks like an hysterical response, I'll ask them what's going on for them, but with genuine curiosity. I've not yet been in a situation where we can't head things off, but if I were to find myself in something that was escalating, I'd simply agree to disagree and walk off.

I avoid crowds. The psychology of a crowd is more powerful than most individuals in it, and I act accordingly and remove myself.

I speak openly when the subject arises.

I have raised careful objections at work - I'm a teacher - in relation to PSHE teaching and staff training. The reaction has been truly horrible.

I'm not giving up though.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
No
Would you raise it at work?
Not in a million years! It's a pretty woke environment and my card would be marked if I did. I'm already an outlier because I choose not to add my pronouns to my email address (and I do mean address, not merely signature). I am sole breadwinner and can't afford to lose my job / reputation.
Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
N/A - no children
At home?
Yes, only me and DH at home and he's firmly GC.
On social media?
Twitter - yes. I have an account unconnected to any other social media with a burner email used to register. Facebook (where I don't post under my real name) - in a limited way, and usually only on the topics that it's hard to argue against logically, e.g. TW in sport and prisons. I have been blocked or unfriended by several people. Here - obviously yes, but I do name change every so often (due another one pretty much now, in fact).

It's work that is the main gag on what I say, how and where I say it. I'd love to be braver and speak up more but I was threatened by a former friend with her sending some FB screenshots (back when I did post under my own name and was naive as to how rabid TRAs could be) to my employer when I posted something fairly innocuous about TW in sport. So I mainly only do so where I can be anonymous, and I'm much more cautious about keeping SM accounts unlinked.

I’m retired. Worked in the Public Sector in a captured organisation. It would have been a nightmare if I’d had to work with it. Womens safety issues come up a lot.
It can’t be discussed in our house. 2 adult twaw children live with us.Weirdly though, they used to needle me , and no longer do. I pretend disinterest in related news items. Another adult child is genderqueer and hasn’t spoken to me properly for 3 years because she thinks I stopped the younger one being their true trans self. I didn’t, she just thankfully realised she was a girl, after 2 years of misery. I would love to put forward GC views at my local Labour Party branch, but I darent, as the home situation is too fragile, so I’m going to resign.

Zebracat, I'm so sorry. 😔

Wanted to add, all my friends are GC, but most like me, can’t say it out loud, because of work or family. The situation with our youngest child was complex with lots of agencies involved. I got the impression that the professionals were as unconvinced as me by the trans declaration and pretty determined to do watchful waiting, but it was never said aloud. We all nodded and were respectful. Everyone is so scared they will be denounced.

The difficulty is in researching/gathering evidence of absence, I think.

Trans rights advocates point to the few women who speak openly and claim that that shows that there is no chilling effect - ignoring the fact that many or most of these women have lost work, been threatened, ostracised, monstered, or even attacked.

What is missing is an understanding of the huge silences created in our culture. The missing conversations, friends, connections.

I’m getting braver with other parents - just this week I’ve been very outspoken with parent friends of 10+years about my views - both very “be kind” lovely types, but exactly those who perhaps haven’t looked beyond the rainbow flags to see the red ones. It was a civilised discussion and we all came away still friends!

I had a second discussion with another parent yesterday and was surprised by how staunch her GC views were despite us never discussing it before. Interestingly though we both have DDs questioning their sexuality and I think we both see how easily they could be led down a certain path.

At home I don’t bring the subject up with DCs but if it does come up, even tangentially, I’ll try to reinforce that sex is immutable, and gender ideology steeped in stereotypes which we’ve always encouraged them to ignore. Treading a fine line as DD’s friends are all obsessed over identity but also very young so hopefully a passing fad. Don’t want to give it too much allure as a potentially source of teenage rebellion!

At work I approach with caution (public sector) and just tend to try to drop in a “well, there’s more than one view about that” type comments without making a commitment either way unless I get a sense someone is open to the conversation and won’t land me in a HR meeting.

Social media not at all. DH seems to be able to post GC things without fear of recrimination (though it keeps me up at night!) but I’m not there yet. I will chip in with comments on other people’s posts occasionally but again, nothing that could get me in hot water at work.

Very much so, whole families torn apart, and so many young people hurt by it. I am very pleased that more people are now being trans just by saying so. Finding a way not to weep when my girl tells me about her friends’ surgeries, hormones etc has been really hard. I hope they don’t regret it all one day, but I think they will. But then, I used to think that about tattoos, and there seems less regret about those than I would have expected, so maybe losing your sexual organs is ok. I feel so hurt when TRAs say that “terfs” don’t really care about women and children. It is everything for me. I really don’t mind how people present, I appreciate differences.

Am I comfortable talking about gender/sex openly ? Yes, in my day to day life.
Would you raise it at work ? Hmm well, I am not working at the moment, and when I do (creative field) I probably wouldn’t raise it but I would be honest about my views if it came up.
Would you raise it at your children’s school ? Yes, if there was an issue. It definitely would make me even less popular with the HT though.
At home ? Yes, big topic of conversation. Thankfully DH agrees with me, and so to my relief do my teenage daughters (16, 18). I don’t often bring it up in front of their friends though, one of my dds was horribly bullied for her views and is at uni now and afraid of losing friends, so she never talks about it anywhere aside from at home with me.
On social media ? This is where I am much more careful (cowardly?) . I follow multiple GC people on both Instagram and Twitter, I like posts, but I don’t post myself or repost/retweet any more. I was put on a blacklist years ago by a trans activist and that scared me as my home is ridiculously easy to find. With teenagers at home, I worried about the impact on them , and our personal safely. It did panic me at the time, I lost sleep over it and felt more vulnerable and so I stopped being vocal on Twitter.
I do feel it has had an impact on my life. The bullying was devastating for my daughter. I worry about her feeling that she has to hide her views now, and also I worry about using previously single sex spaces and in particular my daughters using them.