"I don't give a shit about the scientific explanations. If they identify as a women, they get to compete in sports"

[EdgeOfACoin]

Emma Vigeland, presenter on The Majority Report, a "progressive" internet talk radio programme and podcast, has made it crystal clear that gender identity trumps fairness when it comes to sport.

Unfortunately I'm not tech savvy enough to clip the relevant section from the show directly, but plenty of other have, including Triggernometry presenter Konstantin Kisin, who Tweeted about it. You can see the video on his Twitter page:

https://twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1662390264005120001?t=3-gYh1LvSAt93Fh1N68boA&s=19

Emma has not backed down from her comments and has since mocked "terfs" for being "triggered" by her, declaring that "gender affirming care" for minors would solve all of the problems anyway:

https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1662491715352010752

Emma has unequivocally declared that she is right on this issue.

Fascinating to see any pretence that the subject is "complicated" has gone - no, if a person with a penis wants to compete in women's sports, then that takes priority over everything else, including fairness.

As a side note, she used to be a presenter on The Young Turks and made a (very) half-hearted attempt to defend her former colleague Ana Kasparian last month after Ana lost patience with being referred to as a "birthing person". (Interestingly, Ana hasn't retreated from her own comments either.)

They're not men with dangerously low testosterone, they're women who (if not taking cross sex hormones) have the level of testosterone their body is supposed to have.

Praching to the choir here @MargotBamborough. But that's the basis on which presumably US coaches avoid being sued for picking transmen on testosterone over men not on testosterone.

There should only be one ball on the pitch in a game of women's football...

It is doping but we know females can't play catch up. Even the GDR ladies doped to the gills weren't on the same level as men.

Fair point above about the contact sport.

Really? The IOC has let transgender women compete in the women's category since 2004. Only a handful have ever made it to the Olympics. I would think that given only about 1 to 1,5% of the population is gender dysphoric/transgender, it seems logical that they won't overrun cis gender women in sports. Most have very little interest in it, because it's a reminder of who they were forced to be. But as with everything else, it's easy to call them cheaters when in reality, all they did was follow the rules the sporting bodies set out. And instead of them acknowledging the mistakes they made, of course it's easier to point elsewhere and ban. FYI. you haven't applauded triathlon yet. They created an open category where men can compete against transgender women. All for zero transgender triathletes. That is what a moral panic looks like. Oh, before you consider that a victory: where do you think the men are going to get the prize money from?
Transgender people in sports - Wikipedia
British Triathlon becomes first UK sport to create 'open' category for transgender athletes - BBC Sport

Do you know what I really love?

paragraphs

ones that logically group the thoughts of posters and break them up for ease of reading

that is all

There were zero transgender athletes because transgender women only want to compete in a category where they can be affirmed and win. They were never going to win against their own sex even before they started taking hormones so open doesn't interest them. They want to be against women to affirm themselves and to win. It's all about taking away from women to make themselves feel more of a woman - something they will never be because they are of course male.

The IOC has let transgender women compete in the women's category since 2004

Until 2015 they had to have genital reassignment surgery.

It's just a 'data' dump (tongs very much required), doesn't require graphs. Be grateful the convention of keeping words from running together is being adhered to.

How many winners in the open category will be biological females, do you think? 🤔

"Moral panic" = women showing concern for their own interests. It's been a popular way to shut down women's concerns about porn, CSE, and sexual abuse since the 60s. It's getting a little old now.

it seems logical that they won't overrun cis gender women in sports. Most have very little interest in it, because it's a reminder of who they were forced to be

Eh? It's not a reminder of who they were forced to be - theyre aiming to compete as the opposite of who they were.

Sadly, there’s enough evidence from cycling in the US that allowing TW to compete in the female category just means no women on the podium at all. In the long run, this leads to women getting no prize money and no sponsorship - bye bye women in professional sport (but obvs only once we’ve done the work towards equal media coverage and prize money for the women…)

I'd love to learn the actual number at which it will matter than women are losing out to men. Intriguingly, the formula always seems to be [number who are losing out now] + [a lot].

If some massive cheat male puts down an outstanding record in Female category, then it could be years and dozens of Female competitors that lose out on holding the WR or OR for that event. Not to mention the current record holder, who achieved that without being a massive cheat
I'm specifically thinking of Katie Ledecky who is a once-in-a-generation athlete, a legend in the sport, in any sport. And Lia Thomas the massive cheat

Back on the subject of Emma Vigeland there is an interesting podcast from earlier this month from the people at 'Blocked and Reported'. One of the hosts Jesse Singal went on the Majority Report to debate with Emma over his research into trans healthcare.

It did not go well, and she essentially hung up on him when it became apparent he really knew his stuff - it's long but worth a listen.

https://www.blockedandreported.org/p/episode-181-jesse-calls-into-the#details

For anyone unfamiliar with Blocked and Reported it's US bbased podcast but they do cover quite a few of the gender debate stories from the UK as well (regularly referring to us as Terf Island!)

Jesus, the incoherence doesn't get any better, does it?

They don't want to run as women because that reminds them that they're men???

And when they are forced to run in the correct category, they don't want to run at all and that's meant to prove they're not cheats!

This ideology is where logic goes to die.

In what sense are you using the word 'forced'? Am I equally 'forced' to be short and mobility impaired? 'Forced' tends to be done by an active agent. Which agent do you mean here? Sexist parents maybe? It is interesting how often trans people stories have a very sexist parent in the background (e.g. Susie Green and her husband). Is that the real problem?

Language matters so please be clear about this.

Yes a rather pointed bit of information that @EmiliaB71 has missed.

And we know just how few want to have their cocks chopped off. And to be fair, I think it was a cruel restriction anyway. The IOC should have said no from the very beginning! But they had to acquiesce because they allowed some male DSD athletes in.

Thank you so much. I missed this one! Am listening now!

In further news I think the earth is flat. I don’t give a shit about the science, I am 100% right.

In further news I believe alien lizards live amongst us and eat guinea pigs, I don’t give a shit about the science, I am 100% right.

I love this and am going to adopt it as my go to discussion crushing argument for everything . I need to work on the rapid speech pattern and deadpan delivery though, if you try to make it sound as though you are willing to engage and possibly expand your theory you lose all credibility and people just laugh at you rather than accepting your superior knowledge.

In the US where the college scholarship system is well established as a way for athletes from poor backgrounds to pursue their sport and get an education, the rot sets in very early. Young talented women hoping to be spotted by college scouts at state events are being scuppered by male athletes competing in local high school and regional meets so the female athletes don’t score high enough to get invited to the important events.

I'm not bothered by the science. I think the female half of the human race should be treated as equally human and not as walking therapeutic resources for male people and that's the end of it.

A whole lot of wangling about science does not make for any good reason why male people should be entitled to use women.

Everyone should give this a listen. It's an absolute corker of an episode.

Jesse and Katie are great. Will take a listen.

it seems logical that they won't overrun cis gender women in sports.

Even if correct that we aren't going to see complete domination of all women's sports, so all the podiums are routinely taken by trans, it can still be thousands and thousands of women impacted by it, and some women discouraged from taking part or not willing to share changing rooms.

That's OK because real women are still mostly on the podiums?

it's easy to call them cheaters when in reality, all they did was follow the rules the sporting bodies set out.

Because our ideas of fairness go beyond strict rule keeping. Yes, they may have followed the rules, but we recognise the rules to be unfair and politically influenced.

"Yes I was deliberately taking a performance enhancing drug, but it wasn't on the banned list yet, so I didn't cheat"

Such a person would be, imo, quite correctly viewed as a "cheater" despite the fact that they haven't broken any rules.

Now with trans athletes it's a little different maybe, as they have clearly been officially invited to take part. But we can still see unfairness that is being exploited by some people.