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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Declining to put my preferred pronouns in my email signature

434 replies

HowDoIGetThisThingOff · 23/05/2023 13:11

It's finally happened, I've been "told" to put my preferred pronouns in my email signature at work.

I've emailed back saying my preference is that I don't do this. But I'm feeling a bit anxious 😬.

Please can I get some advice on what to say if they come back with questions or pressure to comply?

OP posts:
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DollyParkin · 23/05/2023 16:55

Could you cite the research that indicates that once a woman signals her sex in an otherwise non-face to face interaction, the response is more prone to be sexist? That a woman drawing attention to her sex leads them to be treated differently, and less well?

Lysianthus · 23/05/2023 16:55

At the start of the BBC's (!) Americast podcast, there is a wonderful sound bite:
"My name is Ted Cruz, and my pronouns are Kiss My Ass".

OchonAgusOchonOh · 23/05/2023 16:55

Girlboss1989 · 23/05/2023 16:50

Of course that's ok, it's your choice and if you are unsure about what pronouns you would like people to use then that's fine. The reason that you would put your preferred pronouns in an email signature is so that the people who you work with know how best to refer to you, obviously if you don't include your pronouns then you're asking them to assume based on things like your name and appearance.

The main reasons people put their pronouns in their signatures are:

  1. Woke virtue signalling
  2. Fear of being labelled a TERF
  3. They #BEKIND types who don't think beyond that

Realistically, people will mainly only use third person pronouns to refer to me when I am not there, so really, it has no impact on me at all which ones they use.

SunnyEgg · 23/05/2023 16:55

Good on you op

Don’t add them

Melroses · 23/05/2023 16:55

I quite like "We/Us" 🤔

BonnieBobbin · 23/05/2023 16:56

Providing pronouns leads to numerous preconceptions that could lead to discrimination.
Recent research shows that certain pronouns mean you're less likely to be offered a job interview. In a professional context, why choose to disadvantage your future career prospects so your organisation can tick a box for diversity training or funding.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 23/05/2023 16:56

DiscoBeat · 23/05/2023 16:51

I think preferring not to say what you prefer is a bit petty, to be honest. It's only so that people get it right.

No, it's not.

KiteofUncertainty · 23/05/2023 16:57

@DiscoBeat If people use sex-based third-person pronouns, as is the rule in English grammar, they will get it right 100% of the time.

BonnieBobbin · 23/05/2023 16:58

DollyParkin · 23/05/2023 16:55

Could you cite the research that indicates that once a woman signals her sex in an otherwise non-face to face interaction, the response is more prone to be sexist? That a woman drawing attention to her sex leads them to be treated differently, and less well?

Are you seriously pretending that you are unaware of how females are discriminated against in the workplace? If so, then you'd be better reading the numerous research papers and ONS reports on that topic, than wasting time on MN.

SunnyEgg · 23/05/2023 17:00

DiscoBeat · 23/05/2023 16:51

I think preferring not to say what you prefer is a bit petty, to be honest. It's only so that people get it right.

No one has got it wrong for me so I’m fine not adding it.

lieselotte · 23/05/2023 17:01

My advice is simply to ignore. I have and nobody has said anything to me about it.

Except one colleague who mentioned it one day and I changed the focus by saying "ah well you've got a unisex name (eg Alex, Sam) so it's useful for you to do it" and he said "ah yes, maybe I should" and that was the end of the conversation.

Maireas · 23/05/2023 17:02

We're expected to do this, I'm still refusing. A rather arsey line manager has started to put pressure on me, so I said I'd go for hag/crone. He complained that I was being deliberately difficult, and my approach "isn't in the spirit".

ArabeIIaScott · 23/05/2023 17:03

Girlboss1989 · 23/05/2023 16:50

Of course that's ok, it's your choice and if you are unsure about what pronouns you would like people to use then that's fine. The reason that you would put your preferred pronouns in an email signature is so that the people who you work with know how best to refer to you, obviously if you don't include your pronouns then you're asking them to assume based on things like your name and appearance.

That's tickety-boo with me. People will assume all sorts of things about me, and do so on a daily basis. Not my circus.

lieselotte · 23/05/2023 17:03

As for getting it wrong, it's irrelevant what people call me behind my back.

In the example above, if they copied me into an email saying "Liese said you would like her to do x" and I wasn't happy with the reference to "her", I'd just reply saying "oh actually I'm a him". Or whatever gender I'd chosen that day.

Interestingly I did a (running) race on Sunday and there was an Elijah in the results. Female. (Under 12). I assume it was a mistake but perhaps it wasn't?

viques · 23/05/2023 17:04

Girlboss1989 · 23/05/2023 15:20

Why don't you just include whichever pronouns you want people to use for you?

Because there is no need. Just as there is no need for anyone to put their birthdate in an email because your age, and your gender, are of no relevance to anyone but you. People who want their pronouns displayed are either trying to use other people to validate their “gender identity” or are desperate for approval.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 23/05/2023 17:04

“I think preferring not to say what you prefer is a bit petty, to be honest. It's only so that people get it right.”

Would it also be petty preferring not to put as your email signature whether you are Protestant or Catholic?

What if employers wanted to know this and wanted everyone to declare either way?

Ok so you’re an atheist but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?

I don’t believe in the new religion of gender identity. My employer should not be forcing me to declare what flavour of this new religion I am (none, I don’t subscribe to it, is apparently not an option) nor coercing me into participating in the rites and rituals of this new religion.

No thank you. I’m not a believer in gender identity philosophy/ideology.

lieselotte · 23/05/2023 17:05

Maireas · 23/05/2023 17:02

We're expected to do this, I'm still refusing. A rather arsey line manager has started to put pressure on me, so I said I'd go for hag/crone. He complained that I was being deliberately difficult, and my approach "isn't in the spirit".

A male line manager? Well then the responses along the lines that it disadvantages women should shut him up. Otherwise I'd ignore him or say "we've been through this, I am not doing it, people can call me what they like" and change the subject.

Actually female line managers may need educating too - at the moment they seem to be the trans lobby's #bekind's useful idiots.

DollyParkin · 23/05/2023 17:05

BonnieBobbin · 23/05/2023 16:58

Are you seriously pretending that you are unaware of how females are discriminated against in the workplace? If so, then you'd be better reading the numerous research papers and ONS reports on that topic, than wasting time on MN.

I think your comprehension is lacking @BonnieBobbin if you think I'm unaware of sexism in the workplace ... Grin

Fighterofthenightman1 · 23/05/2023 17:05

I'd be tempted to put something stupid like wee/woo to see if anyone dares to question it

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 23/05/2023 17:06

Girlboss1989 · 23/05/2023 16:17

If you were unsure then you could just use they/them since that is gender neutral. But the nature of language is that pronouns are used as an identifier and only you will know what you are most comfortable with other people calling you. They're also not set in stone, it's just to help people be more respectful by using the terms you would like to be used.

But this is not an option if you are French, or Italian,possibly Spanish and maybe German ( not absolutely sure about this) speaking, or using that language; because there is no neuter pronoun in those languages, everything is male or female. The plurals are gendered as well, so if you are putting the chairs away, those chairs will be referred to as ‘elles ‘ unlike the knives, which are il/ils . Even qualities such as wisdom or courage are gendered.

Although you suggest the neuter plural is used for the uncertain, of course this is grammatically nonsense, since one non binary person is still just one person. I am reliably informed that the neuter singular is offensive, although logically it would be more accurate. ( and neutral/ neuter is neutral , surely).

You may think I am not serious, but I am. Language matters.

SerendipityJane · 23/05/2023 17:08

Lysianthus · 23/05/2023 16:55

At the start of the BBC's (!) Americast podcast, there is a wonderful sound bite:
"My name is Ted Cruz, and my pronouns are Kiss My Ass".

The irony being he's really "Rafael". but for some weird reason has decided not to use that in politics in Texas in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz

Ted Cruz - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz

DollyParkin · 23/05/2023 17:08

@BonnieBobbin You misread my post - I was asking the OP "If you could cite ..." I know the research (I may even be responsible for some of it ...) So, you know, stop & think and don't be so rude next time.

Maireas · 23/05/2023 17:08

lieselotte · 23/05/2023 17:05

A male line manager? Well then the responses along the lines that it disadvantages women should shut him up. Otherwise I'd ignore him or say "we've been through this, I am not doing it, people can call me what they like" and change the subject.

Actually female line managers may need educating too - at the moment they seem to be the trans lobby's #bekind's useful idiots.

Yes, male. You'd think that there would be other stuff concerning him (he/his) what with behaviour, achievement and results and all, but hey ho - priorities. I'm going to ignore him and intend to be the last person with no identified pronouns, if need be. I'm taking none of his crap, believe me.

Maireas · 23/05/2023 17:09

Although I am tempted to put hag/crone