Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 5

1000 replies

Kucinghitam · 17/05/2023 08:08

Continuation of Thread 4.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4728159-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-3? Thread 3]]. There is so much excel...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4759300-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-4?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
111
duc748 · 29/06/2023 17:35

Yeah, that link doesn't seem to work in the UK. I found this, the most recent I could see:

https://www.publicgood.org.nz/2023/04/25/why-the-ministry-of-health-had-to-act-on-children-and-gender-medicine/

Britinme · 29/06/2023 17:37

A review of the "safety and reversibility" of puberty blocker drugs is due to be released by the Ministry of Health in the coming months....

The review comes as several countries exercise caution with puberty blockers, with the United Kingdom this month stopping the use of the drugs in most circumstances.

Before September last year the Ministry of Health said: "Puberty Blockers are a safe and fully reversible medicine that may be used from early puberty through to later adolescence to help ease distress and allow time to fully explore gender health options."

But in September the Ministry updated it, taking out the part that says "safe and fully reversible".

Now, the Ministry of Health has issued a new statement to Newshub for Paddy Gower Has Issues which said: "The Ministry of Health does not have formal guidelines on puberty blockers" and noted that any "medical treatment carries a balance of benefit and risk."

"Because individual circumstances vary considerably, decisions around the use of puberty blockers are best made by patients and their families in consultation with appropriate health professionals," the Ministry said.
The Ministry said it wanted to "ensure that any information we do publish about the safety and reversibility of puberty blockers is supported by the latest clinical evidence."

The use of puberty blocker drugs has really ramped up over the past 10 years. There were 137 patients back in 2012, and it's gone up every year since to 771 last year.

Auckland Pediatrician Doctor Rachel Johnson who is a member of PATHA (Professional Association of Transgender Health Aotearoa), said: "Puberty blockers are a medication that are used to pause puberty, they can't turn it backwards, so they can't reverse changes that have already happened but absolutely they can just pause things. So imagine if physical changes that cause stress are occurring, by stopping those can be incredibly beneficial on a psychological and physical level. But if you were to stop those puberty blockers, puberty would just kick in again."

"Over ten years of following people who are on blockers, with the worldwide evidence that is available, I do think that accessing puberty blockers in the context of the way young people can in New Zealand is really appropriate," Dr Johnson said.

"They're not some universal treatment for every trans youth, it's always a really carefully considered decision. Whether the benefits outweigh any potential risks."

Asked if they were safe and fully reversible, Dr Johnson replied: "I would absolutely say in the years of experience of using blockers and the worldwide evidence they are safe and reversible."

But overseas there isn't consensus on the evidence.

Earlier this month the United Kingdom put a stop to virtually all doctors being able to prescribe puberty blockers. Now children can only access them if they're part of clinical research.

The National Health Service England decision came after a high-profile legal case against gender clinic the Tavistock Centre by a 24-year-old woman who was given puberty blockers as a teenager but later regretted her transition.
There has also been a major independent review by respected pediatrician Hilary Cass which found 'gaps in the evidence' around the drugs

Dr Dylan Wilson, a pediatrician in Australia who has concerns about puberty blockers, said: "There's nothing that exists here in Australia or New Zealand to demonstrate more benefit than exists overseas. So the fact that the UK is now saying this can only be done as part of research demonstrates that. That research still needs to happen.

"Rather than allow them to explore. It does the opposite. It fixes them into a pathway that they find very hard to get out of because they don't have the ability to say, actually, this is wrong for me," he said.

Asked if this was not giving children enough credit that they really know themselves well, Dr Wilson said: "I still don't believe that a child who is precocious, articulate, hugely intelligent and is absolutely adamant convinced that they are who they say they are. I still don't feel like a child at the age of 12, 13, 14 even up to 16 [understands] the implications of what they are."
Newshub spoke to Dr Wilson because New Zealand doctors with similar views were worried about speaking out.

Dr Wilson said: "My main concerns from New Zealand is the lack of ability to express those concerns and have those concerns shut down and considered transphobic as a result. The lack of ability to discuss this as a medical issue is hugely concerning."

duc748 · 29/06/2023 17:39

The NZ medical guidelines require no diagnosis. Rather, clinicians are advised they should “recognise that each individual is the expert of their own gender identity’. That is, each child, regardless of their age, and any other mental health issues, is to be treated as the expert.

FFS! 😡

Gonners · 29/06/2023 17:59

Rather, clinicians are advised they should “recognise that each individual is the expert of their own gender identity’.

I must ask my Kiwi niece if any of her three boys (aged 5, 3 and 1) identifies as tuatara-gender.

tourdefrance · 29/06/2023 21:13

Thanks for the article about prostitution in Germany. Unfortunately I was very aware of it already and have mentioned it to DS as a terrible example of what happened when the sex industry is liberalised - increase in demand = increased trafficking to increase supply.

He was recently told at school that he should say ‘sex worker’ rather than ‘prostitute’. Is there any other word that is better than either?

SqueakyDinosaur · 30/06/2023 00:49

Well, "trafficked woman" is going to hit the spot an uncomfortable number of times.

Kucinghitam · 30/06/2023 05:13

SqueakyDinosaur · 30/06/2023 00:49

Well, "trafficked woman" is going to hit the spot an uncomfortable number of times.

I concur.

Or how about "male-orgasm service-bipeds"?

OP posts:
DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 30/06/2023 07:50

There wasn't anything 'new' in the article but it was a good if harrowing account of what is happening.

IcakethereforeIam · 30/06/2023 09:25

Is there a semen version of a spittoon?

I read an article probably linked from MN about the lives of these women. It was harrowing, I'd say more so than the one linked upthread. The skin diseases from filthy customers, the toll that constant use, washing and lubricants takes on their vaginas and rectums, the jaw, tooth and neck problems, so many physical problems that I don't think a single part of their bodies was unaffected. Then there are the mental issues. The drugs they use to cope.

There's some hope, some politicians seem to be waking up to the utter failure of this policy.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 30/06/2023 10:25

Good article.

One of the science people I follow on FB was a prostitute in an Australian brothel for a while. She's written a book about it portraying it as in some ways a positive thing. (I've not read the actual book, so am just going by the extracts shebposts.) By her descriptions it was a better run and safer place than the one in the article, and she tells a good story - focusing on anecdotes that are 'funny' and quite a few that portray the punters in a sympathetic light.

But even with that filter you don't have to read far between the lines to see horrors. She 'chose' to do it, but clearly had a terrible background and was in a dire situation when she started. She talks of throwing out punters who don't want to follow the rules - so clearly had more agency and backup than many - but that still means she's in dangerous situations when it starts to kick off. She's sympathetic to the crying clients - the 18 year olds brought in for their first sexual exerience by domineering fathers, the wives who've come as a present to their husbands - but those are just more abuse coming in from the outside world.

It's written as humour, but she can't stop the reality of dissociation, misogyny and - beneath the horror - the grim unrelenting boredom seeping through. And that's by far the better end of possible experiences of that world.

bignosebignose · 30/06/2023 11:18

Feels a comparatively trivial following on from recent posts but I'm guessing we've all seen Rosie Duffield getting stick for commenting on the "everyday mother" on ITV News?

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1674349733484150784?s=20

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1674349733484150784?s=20

bignosebignose · 30/06/2023 11:18

Top response imho:

So is this right? ‘Mother’ is a gendered term that’s best avoided, unless you’re a man using it to describe yourself, in which case it’s bullying and transphobia to point out it’s offensive?

https://twitter.com/campervanwoman/status/1674686794837753857?s=20

https://twitter.com/campervanwoman/status/1674686794837753857?s=20

duc748 · 30/06/2023 12:49

Ooh, what's going on there? Can't see either of those links (have no account and certainly don't intend getting one); has Twitter changed? Just goes to a page asking me to sign up. No ta.

MavisMcMinty · 30/06/2023 13:09

Yes, @duc748 same here, I’m gutted, and scared if I try to sign up again it will recognise my iPad and ban me again instantly.

MouseMinge · 30/06/2023 13:18

I miss the don't like button on Twitter. It wasn't there for long and I think Musk must have binned it but it felt really good to click on it when someone was totally and utterly full of shit. I'm sure Mika is a nice person, whatever, but why on earth did ITV news not just use a woman?! Wtf is wrong with the media that they are currently gaslighting us with this shit.

MavisMcMinty · 30/06/2023 13:25

I never had the don’t like button, thought it was just available to some as a trial idea. But I don’t like a don’t like button, it can be used as a pile-on.

MavisMcMinty · 30/06/2023 14:40

She rescued Adam from his incelhood.

Kucinghitam · 30/06/2023 17:17

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4838848-first-direct-and-natwest-closing-bank-accounts-for-political-reasons-inc-being-gender-critical

I remember the thread about the Bad Woman who had her bank account cancelled. And it would hardly be a surprise (given my views on Brexit) that I think Farage is an utter shitbag of the worst sort. But also unsurprisingly, I think that effectively destroying the ability of people to function in their daily lives, just because they have Wrong Views, is a dangerous slippery slope.

(I suspect that TRSOHers are fully on board with this sort of thing).

First Direct and Natwest closing bank accounts for political reasons inc being gender critical | Mumsnet

Apprently First Direct have closed the account of the Wings over Scotland founder for his beliefs (He's Gender Critical), and Coutts, owned by Natwest...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4838848-first-direct-and-natwest-closing-bank-accounts-for-political-reasons-inc-being-gender-critical

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 30/06/2023 17:23

bignosebignose · Today 11:18

Feels a comparatively trivial following on from recent posts but I'm guessing we've all seen Rosie Duffield getting stick for commenting on the "everyday mother" on ITV News?

I can't access it, either; could you post the text? I haven't heard about it.

SinnerBoy · 30/06/2023 17:26

Kucinghitam · Today 17:17

Well, that looks like a lawsuit just waiting for a payout.

bignosebignose · 30/06/2023 17:31

SinnerBoy · 30/06/2023 17:23

bignosebignose · Today 11:18

Feels a comparatively trivial following on from recent posts but I'm guessing we've all seen Rosie Duffield getting stick for commenting on the "everyday mother" on ITV News?

I can't access it, either; could you post the text? I haven't heard about it.

Rosie tweeted this, in response to the clip of a news bulletin showing an "everyday mother" talking about the Thames Water issue (while doing the obviously womanly thing of filling the washing machine. And got stick for it from numerous Be Kinders, including LOJ.

Dear @itvnews, I am sure this is a lovely, intelligent and decent human being. This was an important piece. This is not however a struggling 'mother'.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 30/06/2023 18:37

I'm reserving judgement on the Farage thing. As far as I know he's not been told why, and he's been refused by multiple other banks. I'd not expect that sort of blanket blacklisting for wrong think, but it's standard practice if there's a suspicion of financial irregularities.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.