Angry with my non binary brother- how to help SIL

[Angrywithmybrother]

I’m a long time lurker on these boards but feel confounded by this recent situation in my own life. I’m thinking just typing it will help.

My brother (in his 40s) came out as non-binary last year. He was quite tearful when he told me as he thinks I’m a TERF and probably thought I’d react badly. I didn’t say much - “I can see why you would want to go move away from narrow gender constructs” or something like that. My parents didn’t say much either apparently. I don’t think they understand the issues.

I saw my SIL recently at a family event and got chatting to her. She basically said that she is devastated by the whole thing. Apparently my brother just announced it to her and their friends at the same time. He has started to go to work and social events ‘as a woman’ now. Dressed in a stereotypical female way. He has also started to repeatedly correct their children’s use of pronouns towards him, even though they don’t understand. If my SIL questions it he calls her a transphobe and a bigot. She said she is at breaking point.

I’m just wondering if anyone has had any luck talking to someone about this and getting them to see both sides. I feel like my brother has been radicalised.

They have no real business getting married even if they can't, but if they do, then they should profoundly apologise, to their WIFE alone at first, and then suggest they try and support their wife through the grief at her loss of what she thought was a heterosexual marriage. Followed on by offering to be an equal and respectful co-parent and to find a way to explain this to the children especially if they are younger.

This bloke is very unlikely to be gay. Most men who want to wear dresses fancy women and fancy themselves as women.

Most men who want to wear dresses fancy women and fancy themselves as women.

Seems life was easier when shitty, selfish men would just be drunk.

Yes and?

Being a sibling does not mean you have to change your own entire history and identity either...

He’s FORTY!

He’s a sodding Millennial, unless he’s been living under a rock he’s grown up with trans people winning Eurovision and Big Brother. Trans is thoroughly mainstream.

To become a husband and father 2 children and then ‘come out’ as a special-sort-of-non male at a PARTY, without even discussing it with your wife first is pure selfish arsehole territory.

Why are you caping for this prick?

You're hoping that the kids will somehow come to see he's not a deluded, selfish person after all? Dream on!

He’s FORTY!

*He’s a sodding Millennial, unless he’s been living under a rock he’s grown up with trans people winning Eurovision and Big Brother. Trans is thoroughly mainstream.

To become a husband and father 2 children and then ‘come out’ as a special-sort-of-non male at a PARTY, without even discussing it with your wife first is pure selfish arsehole territory.

Why are you caping for this prick?*

Exactly. It's utterly cringe and embarrassing that this grown man (old enough where in most times in history he'd be a grandfather by now) has some narcissistic coming out party without informing his wife and children ahead of time!

I wish women would support women hurt by men, not gaslight them into further abuse.

He has also started to repeatedly correct their children’s use of pronouns towards him, even though they don’t understand. If my SIL questions it he calls her a transphobe and a bigot. She said she is at breaking point.

Really sorry to hear this. Please put her in touch with Woman's Aid, and she's completely correct about joint counselling being potentially a bad idea.

100% this.

'where the non-binary parent can be who who they really are'

JFC.

thought non binary was neither sx so why dress as a woman

your brother is a prick doing it like this

Its infuriating...... I recently watched a trans Man poet who claimed not to wish to self declare pronouns because he liked to identify as his original woman self in the summer when lighter, floatier clothes were more comfortable and some days this person felt female and not like the transmale they presented themselves as for most of the time.

When questioned the response was "I m too future for most people".

But let’s not pretend hating on trans people or pressuring people to repress their gender identity is a solution to anything

And let's not also pretend that men can change sex and become women.
Because that's what this man is going to say he's done next.
Non-binary is just a stepping-stone to transwoman.

These men just follow a script. It's pathetic.

I saw my SIL recently at a family event and got chatting to her. She basically said that she is devastated by the whole thing. Apparently my brother just announced it to her and their friends at the same time. He has started to go to work and social events ‘as a woman’ now. Dressed in a stereotypical female way. He has also started to repeatedly correct their children’s use of pronouns towards him, even though they don’t understand. If my SIL questions it he calls her a transphobe and a bigot. She said she is at breaking point.

Sorry @Angrywithmybrother he's your brother and all that, but he is being emotionally abusive to his wife & children.

Does he do the stereotypically female things such as:
cleaning dirty bathrooms, kitchens, loos
doing the children's laundry
carrying the mental load of running the household

and so on.

I know what I'd bet on ...

Mods, I've asked several time on this forum whether we are allowed to use a medical/ psychological term — autogynephilia. I haven't received an answer from you but I note that various of my posts in which I use the word still stand, so I am assuming it is now acceptable.

Tortoise, how do you know he has gender dysphoria? Most men who transition later in life are autogynephiles and people posting on this forum understand what autogynephilia is.

He's married a woman and had children. Behaving abusively to them is not acceptable.

I think I agree with you - I definitely agree that his behaviour is unacceptable and she should feel supported to leave him.

I was making a point about the ridiculousness of 'non-binary'.Perhaps clumsily, though one or two other posters got my point. Agree about the probability of escalation - this isn't about clothes - it's about his behaviour and what he expects from his family.

I recommend that your son joins Free Speech Union and reads the Forstater ruling to know his rights.

In such a workplace, I would refuse to give pronouns. Not only is it compelled political speech in conflict with GC beliefs, it also puts those trans people who are closeted for safety reasons (e.g. they risk murder or ostracism from a religious minority community if they come out at work where others from that community are present) in the position of having to choose between lying and endangering themselves. So pronoun disclosure actually harms the most vulnerable trans people.

They wear trousers without any pockets

He didn’t even have the basic courtesy to tell his wife in private!

that is highly disrespectful and downright cruel. Why should should a morally bankrupt person who only thinks of himself be respected?

the brother is the person who has to work hard to recreate a working relationship with his wife and kids, because whatever issues he has or has had in the past, he has totally fucked up the lives of his family.

Personally I'd skip the therapist and just get a good lawyer. Get him out of the house and away from the kids. She has done nothing wrong, he's the one breaking the marriage contract. Let him sort himself out away from the kids and constant gaslighting. As others have said look at the Trans Widows thread, it's a pattern constantly repeated and the women there will understand in a way others cant.

This person has probably been going through a lot, perhaps much of it in secret, perhaps for many, many years.

a) I doubt it.
b) If so, that makes his failure to tell his wife first, in private, even worse! If he'd actually struggled like that, he'd surely have some empathy with her, some awareness that he's about to swing a wrecking ball through her life, and would at least grant her the chance to hear it in private and process it, instead of dropping it on her in a group setting.

You poor SIL, why on earth would he announce it to friends at the same time as her, don't get who he would do that, Shows a lack of respect. I'm afraid I'd be leaving him I've got all the time on the word for genuine transans men and woman but i feel like the last 12months its just become fashionable and i personally think its more to do with mental health than anything else but saying that outloud make you trasphobic.

I think the kids will need councilling too which i should imagin is a lengthy wait.

gay and lesbian people not uncommonly ended up in marriages with persons of the opposite gender due to social pressure. That could create some very painful situations.

I addressed this analogy upthread. I'll use some less contentious analogies to illustrate as well.

If a man said to a group including his wife that he hated his job and had applied to a job at the other end of the country, with resultant disruption to the kids' schooling and a house move needed if his application was successful, and he had not told his wife first in private, we would say that he was right out of line and that he should have told his wife before his friends. Many would argue that he should have discussed it with his wife before even submitting the application, so that she knows he's inclined to move for work before having the pressure of discussing a job offer put on her.

I think moat people would say that a man should tell his wife before his friends if he applies to a new job locally, because it's courtesy to let your lawful spouse know first. Some would argue that he should discuss it with his wife before submitting the application, even if the job is nearby or an internal application within the same employer.

The outrage on this thread isn't about "trans", it's about the husband treating his wife with contempt, driving a bulldozer through her marriage and then using his new "non-binary" status as a shield to avoid accountability by calling her a bigot when she objects.

Respect a man with a word I can't say here or I'll be deleted whose entitled selfishness has blown up his family - wake up and have a freakin' word with yourself!

Didnt think "non binary" meant wearing dresses, that sounds a bit like stereotypical idea of female. If you want to support your brother maybe try and talk to him about gender stereotypes and why he wishes to be seen as female. If you can keep it calm and neutral you could move on to point out how difficult this is for his wife and children and how unkind he has been to her. He is unlikely to go back on this. He will find plenty of online and charity support, including encouraging him to be cruel to his wife and children.

With your SIL I think you have to acknowledge how unkind your brother has been and is being to her. You can recognise that this has fundamentally altered their relationship, that other women in this position have not always wished to stay married and that she will be grieving the loss of her past life. There is very little that truly recognises and prioritises the needs of families. You could point her to the trans widows thread, you could make it clear that whatever she decides to do you wish to remain in contact. If you feel able to do so you can say that this must also be difficult for your brother as he was quite tearful when he told you.

What I am sure about is the person’s gender identity needs to be respected and accommodated

gender is a social construct.
it does not objectively exist.
you can respect someone’s imagination if you want to but you cannot compel anyone else to do so