Caroline F - new arrest / harassment ?

[catsrus]

Caroline has just posted on twitter that the police were trying to force entry - WTF going on?

Three officers saying she has to go with them.

Three.

twitter.com/cf_farrow/status/1651514281471492096?s=46&t=rbPMHI1uvxUAiQC4E1EE3A

To be fair that response is varied with:

"Let me write another lengthy essay explaining what I don't know in case you missed it on every previous occasion".

I think those essays are written by an AI bot (Artificial Ignorance).

🎶 When you mansplain again about things you don’t know… that’s misogyny 🎶

Indeed - but if you're suggesting that the police force is totally misogynistic, then surly we would be spinning it so women are arrested for the majority of the time. And hence the majority of people in jail would be women?

But yet - the vast majority of DV victims are women and the vast majority of people arrested are men.

If we were all misogynistic, it wouldn't be that way

...and told me I have no right to have an opinion on here because I'm a man have they?

Nobody has said that to me.

Indeed - but if you're suggesting that the police force is totally misogynistic, then surly we would be spinning it so women are arrested for the majority of the time. And hence the majority of people in jail would be women?

Or perhaps it would show in a myriad of other subtle and not so subtle ways.

Sexual assault not taken seriously or victim blaming. Rape cases not prosecuted or the victim feeling as though the process itself is an ordeal. Fear of reporting partners when they’re in the police force. Women’s concerns regarding stalking or harassment ignored, or their abuser having complaints entertained. Sexual harassment in the workplace. Pornographic messages sent and discussed. Discrimination when pregnant or a new mother. Undercover police officers in sexual relationships. Taking pictures of women’s dead bodies. Rape and murder of women just walking home. Police officers mansplaining to women on online feminist forums.

And many women that are in prison are ultimately there due to men in some way, even if that’s not police officers.

Did you know that nearly every women has experienced some form of sexual assault or harassment in their lifetime? Often the first time is in childhood. The majority of women look behind them when they walk at night, or don’t go out at night alone. We hold our keys ready, pretend to talk on our phones. If we haven’t experienced domestic abuse then we nearly always have a friend or acquaintance who have. We’ve heard sexist jokes at work or from family members.

Many of us have experienced birth trauma where consent has not been given. We’ve pretended to know other women on the train when a man is creepy or aggressive or persistent. We’ve made ourselves small when the beefy guy next to us manspreads into our space.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. If you are a police officer and you don’t know this, then you’re part of the problem by a country mile.

God, the male poster on here is absolutely the problem.

I haven't seem it, so it can't be happening.

Like women havent heard this crap their entire lives......

Bore of, you horrod slug. Stop wasting our time.

Indeed - but if you're suggesting that the police force is totally misogynistic, then surly we would be spinning it so women are arrested for the majority of the time

How on earth would women be arrested 'the majority of the time' when not only are women not committing crimes at anywhere near the levels that men do, they're not even involved in most of the crimes at all. Or is the poster saying we can only discuss the institutional misogyny in the police forces if the police start dragging random women out of their beds at 3am and arresting them because half a dozen men were involved in a knife brawl 2 postcodes away?

I do salute your indefatiguability, wims, to still be trying to discuss the topic. Is it too early for a gin emoji?

I think that we have been given a very illuminating insight into how difficult it is going to be to tackle misogyny, in male dominated services. It appears that they don't know what it is.

if the police treat men with far more grace than women - how is it 90% of the prison population are male? How is it the vast majority of DV cases going to court or the suspect is in jail have a male perpetrator and female victim? If the police force are totally misogynistic, then surly it would be the other way around - or even closer to 50/50

Oh I dunno, maybe because men commit the vast majority of crimes?
Women just dont do domestic violence in the same numbers as men. Mainly because men are (mostly) stronger/taller/more inclined/other reasons.

If there were no misogyny in the police force more rapists would be being caught and sent to prison. But they ain't.
If a man goes to the local police station and says hes been mugged, there will be a lot of work put in to finding the mugger, making sure the man is supported, etc etc.
If a woman goes to the police and says I've been raped/assaulted/mugged/pick your crime, she will be first asked, what was she doing in that place at that time and what was she wearing. All designed to put her off making a complaint in the first place.

But oh no, no misogyny here, it's like looking for the scarlet pimpernel. We seek misogyny here, we seek misogyny there, the police seek misogyny everywhere

Yet never see it. So sad.

So I am being accused of talking down to people on here because they are women - (page 32). Yet people on here are happy to refer to me as 'Splainer' where as I respectfully refer to you all by you usernames. Even on the very first page after one post - i started to receive abuse messages and these continued throughout the thread to the point that MNHQ had to delete some of the posts. The post above calls me a 'slug' for example - is this not be disrespectful to me?

But yet - I'm the problem???

So why is it OK for me to receive such abuse?

MissMissive
I agree - there are all sorts of horrible misogynistic things that happen in society - but my question was - where I have I been misogynistic on this thread precisely? Since I am being accused of it. And what misogynistic things have happened on my shift that I 'will have turned a blind eye to' since my shift has been accused of being misogynistic - and people on here have never met them!

Do you have evidence to suggest that the sexual assault cases and rape cases are not taken seriously by police because the victims are women? Can you show me anywhere where the police have concluded a case 'because the victim is female, its not in the public interest to purse' - I don't think that crime closure code exists.

there are a whole host of reasons why the detection figures are low and some of it is down to incompetencies by a particular police force - but there are a whole host other factors that affect detection figures.

I understand that all women will have experienced sexual assaults in their life time - but i have too. The amount of times I have been groped in nightclubs whilst on duty and trying to separate fights is huge. I still get nervous on my own walking down streets late at night, even with all the kit I have on. I get all sorts thrown at me that have nearly taken my head off or been thrown at the windscreen of the panda car as I drive down a street - from both males & females. Its not just women who experience this. The vast majority of murder victims are men and 70% of these cases happen outside of the home - and yes the suspects to these will be male, but it doesn't stop men being just as frightened to walk along a street at night.

But going back to Caroline's current arrest - yes she will have been a victim of sexual assault in her past and she will have been a victim of domestic abuse (or someone close to her) and she will have heard misogynistic jokes in her lifetime. But do you want the police to say that because this has happened to her in her past, she can't possibly be guilty of anything now - the reporting person in this case must be lying and we should ignore what they say? Or do you think the police should investigate it before arriving at that conclusion?

Baldieheid
I haven't said its not happening - but if people are accusing me of being misogynistic they need to detail where I have done this on this thread. And respectfully I am not a 'slug' I am a human being. Or is that just a term you use to refer to men

Alltheprettyseahorses
If people are accusing the police force as being totally misogynistic, then surly all DV cases we go to, we would automatically blame the female party as being at fault? If we are truly misogynistic - all people are there at the scene or will be part of the enquiry, so why don't the cops just arrest the females all the time? Always take the account of the male as being true and arrest the female?

But yet the figures don't support that do they. The vast majority of people arrested are male.

SinnerBoy
Because you are not sharing my opinion. If you do, you might suffer the same rebukes that I have. Others on this thread have been rebuked that have dared to post something that supports my view.

Ourladycheesusedatum
There are a whole host of reasons why detection figures on rapes are low - you need to read previous threads on this topic or PM me rather than de-rail this thread further.

And no - its not a case that we only investigate crimes where the victim is male and write off crimes where the victim is female.

If police forces do this - then its wrong and it can be complained about and will be upheld as its not the standard practice.

So your misogyny extends still further, to telling us why detection figures are low.

I'm happy to tell you why. First of all women are asked what were they doing in that place at that time wearing those clothes. Were they drinking. Did they know him. Even if they were at home wearing pyjamas. Then they are asked if they led the man on. After this, if any sane woman has got this far, they are then asked to hand over their phone for an unspecified time. Most women cannot do this for various reasons including not able to afford a replacement phone while they wait.

Answering wrongly to any of these questions has a deleterious effect on the potential case. And the police do their level best to point that out.

Then theres the very long wait for the man to be arrested and questioned and bailed and the phone to be looked at and after all that unless one is the "perfect victim" its nfa.

I frankly think if all this time putting women off was spent actually detecting then probably a few more rapes would get to court.

The only man I know who was raped was given a very different experience. For a start they believed him. He was not asked why he was there, was he drunk, what he was wearing, did he know the rapist, did he lead him on.

FWIW, he was drunk, deliberately drunk, drinking his latest breakup away. He was only wearing shorts cos hot day, yet he was never asked these very important questions. Why?

Ourladycheesusedatum
And where is any of that written as a standard practice?

I'm not for one minute saying that it doesn't occur - but when it doesn't its clearly wrong and not how it should be.

So your saying that its standard practice and given by the Royal College of Policing that police must ask the victim if she led the perpetrator on????? Where is that written then?

The man will be arrested a soon as possible as he is basically a walking crime scene - where is it written that the police should wait a good length of time before he is arrested?

We ask what the victim what she was wearing because we need to consider seizing the clothing (forensics). We ask if she has been drinking alcohol as it affects the early evidence kits and need to know if we are considering and spiking incidents. The scientists need to back count the 'toxins' in their body.

We ask if she knows him - so we can identify him

The man you refer to should have been asked those questions - forensics have been missed and early evidence kit would now be inadmissible. So in that example, we haven't even bother to identity him - and you're flagging that as a good example?????

The standard practice (that I use) is to start at a point of total belief of the victim. Their account can not be contested. A lot of victims do not want to proceed beyond this point and do not want to re-live the whole experience at court and i am not going to put any pressure on a rape victim to go to court when they don't want to. I am also not going to put any pressure on a rape victim to endure a medical examination if they don't want to. Most rape victims don't care about the detection figures and they don't care what happens to the suspect - they just want to put themselves first, access the help & support I can offer and try and move forward. Reliving it all again down the line is often something they don't want to do - and I am certainly not going to put any pressure on them to do so.

If you think that's me be misogynistic - then you're going to have to point this out to me.

Why are female rape victims asked to hand over their phones to police?

Phones may be linked to a persons benefit claim. The victim has to carry on paying the bill for the phone while the police have it, and they may have to buy a second phone.
Why aren't perpetrators routinely told to hand over their phones?

Why do women say the legal process is as bad as the rape?

They don't 'hand their phones over' as a matter of course.

If they are the victim, we have no power to seize them anyway - we do with a suspect.

You will need to know what involvement the phone has to the enquiry - if its not relevant, it won't be seized.

I certainly don't 'routinely seize' them from a victim.

Thelnebriati
Why do women say the legal process is as bad as the rape?

it can be - any court process is. The medical examination is. The enquiry is
but what is the alternative?

''Rape cases ‘could fail’ if victims refuse to give police access to phones
Experts split on whether new guidance for crime victims will help or hinder prosecutions''
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/29/new-police-disclosure-consent-forms-could-free-rape-suspects

your arrogance, pig-headedness and absolute refusal to listen to what women are telling you never ceases to stun me. Not ever.

You'll be a typical, average plod, i suppose. Just like all the rest of your colleagues.

This is why women don't trust the police. If i didn't know better i'd think you were a double agent sent here to make the police look even worse than they are. Perhaps you are?

Felix125, they were at one time routinely asked for. Can you explain why they are asked for and how the police then use the information contained in them?

And why it was only the victims phone?

it would take literally minutes to do a phone dump. But no - inconvenience the victim. Because, hopefully then she won't bother and plod won't have to do a metric tonne of paperwork and can get back to real police work.
Arresting women for putting ribbons/stickers on fences.