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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Her App - Terfs get out

121 replies

LexMitior · 26/04/2023 16:55

It's lesbian visibility week, and Her App (lesbian dating) sent all its users a messages on terfs, and how they should leave the app.

Now this is pretty aggressive... is this a marketing ploy? Seems odd to cut down your customer base by telling women that they er, can't prefer biological women.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MargotBamborough · 26/04/2023 20:56

ArabeIIaScott · 26/04/2023 20:53

Is there a room for an app for just women called MANGETOUT?

Mingetout, surely?

ArabeIIaScott · 26/04/2023 20:57

😁

MargotBamborough · 26/04/2023 20:57

At no point should any male who's committed a sex crime be put in a female prison, that's just nonsensical.

TERF!!

Skankoot · 26/04/2023 20:59

MargotBamborough · 26/04/2023 20:57

At no point should any male who's committed a sex crime be put in a female prison, that's just nonsensical.

TERF!!

One of us, one of us.

Lwrenagain · 26/04/2023 21:05

😂😂😂

I'm off to arrange a rally as we speak 😁

Thanks for being so welcoming amigos x

literalviolence · 26/04/2023 21:05

No TW should be in a female prison and that's not yours to give away.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2023 21:06

Baby steps, she's just had terfdom thrust upon her.

Hagosaurus · 26/04/2023 22:23

Arabella

**MANGETOUT 😂😂😂

Hagosaurus · 26/04/2023 22:28

Lwrenagain welcome! I would say your views are pretty close to mine - curious as to what you thought ‘terfs’ actually do believe?

DerekFaker · 26/04/2023 22:38

We'd have to stay overnight sometimes in that job and my fave colleague who was a lesbian used to really enjoy farting on his pillow, so small victories I guess?

Ha ha ha!

Righthandcider · 26/04/2023 22:43

My brain is befuddled from 12 hours at work and I am failing to grasp your mangetout joke @ArabeIIaScott.

ArabeIIaScott · 26/04/2023 22:44

MAN-GET-OUT.

In response to the TERFS GET OUT in the OP.

xbluefairytale · 27/04/2023 01:40

I deleted the app today. Their aggressive message pushed me off

Redbird87 · 27/04/2023 02:39

Funnily, any dating apps specifically for biological women, much like our restrooms and prisons, are immediately invaded by violent, litigious perverts.

Lwrenagain · 27/04/2023 06:26

literalviolence · 26/04/2023 21:05

No TW should be in a female prison and that's not yours to give away.

So so sorry for long reply 🙈

This is tricky for me because the concern about a non predatory TW being in a men's prison is so upsetting knowing what they would experience.
Ideally if we can protect child abusers from the general population of prisoners we could protect transfolk? It makes no sense why not.

But ideally is far from reality and all I can think for now is a case by case scenario.

I debate with myself constantly over these things, see my TW pals all have had surgery and whilst that makes them less threatening, I'm also quite saddened that people will go through harrowing procedures (and I've asked questions, it's not nice) in the hope of being accepted etc, i feel personally they've had surgery (only my friends, don't know about others!) To appease others. The hope of living with a man romantically as a woman etc. But I'd hate to feel any person wants to remove their genitals so I/ society feel happier about them wearing a dress. (Not that I care who wears what, that was example)

🙈 See? I'm obviously quite unsure of lots of things surrounding all this and my priorities lie with wanting to keep everyone vulnerable safe.
Absolute fucking minefield.

I'm not comfortable with any situation that involves anyone being put at risk and TW are included for me with this.

I think I struggle to not imagine my kind and gentle friends in these situations, not creepy new to self ID types but I'm aware they exist.

Do by all means give me your opinions and ideas I'm open to discussing these things always.

And for those asking what I thought a terf was? I've seen some comments on here at times that can be quite mean as opposed to just opinion and quite cruel towards people with gender dysmorphia.
Life is hard enough for these people, I've worked with small kids with genuine GD and parents who have struggled with it massively so I've seen first hand it's not just a fad for lots of people. (Although it's definitely worth noting for some, it is)
I try to take people as individuals, not as a label. Like I've said I really hate people who've hurt kids? Well I do, but I'm happy to write to prisoners who may have because I believe that someone so isolated stands no chance of rehabilitation and as a survivor of CSA I hope that I can help somewhere in someone's journey to not want to have a life stuck in prison. (My DP thinks I'm mental for this BTW, he supports me because he loves me, completely disagrees with my theory on why I do it)
Anyway I'm sorry for long post and indecisive answers but I'm trying to cover everything before the kids wake up and start being hooligans.

Namechange224422 · 27/04/2023 07:18

Hmmmmm I wonder if we need to reclaim some words here.

www.assignedfemaleatbirth.com
www.cervixhavers.com

possibly not the sexiest of dating site names but pretty clear none the less…….

TheHandmaiden · 27/04/2023 08:23

I like "Mingetout" dating app. Make this happen!

WeeBisom · 27/04/2023 09:40

The CEO of her has just published this incoherent, absolutely cringe statement where she says the future of lesbians is “trans”, there’s no such thing as a real lesbian, and that terfs and gender crits aren’t welcome on Her. https://weareher.com/lesbian-visibility-day-2023/

I quit using Her a while ago because it was just full of men. It’s so upsetting that lesbians are being told they are bigots if they don’t accept males.

This Lesbian Visibility Day, We Are Reclaiming ‘Lesbian’ - HER

Happy Lesbian Visibility Day to trans and non-binary lesbians!

https://weareher.com/lesbian-visibility-day-2023/

AlisonDonut · 27/04/2023 09:54

I've searched for Giggle on this thread and not found it, but if you are actually interested in female only apps etc, then Giggle is currently fighting against a man trying to claim 'discrimination' as they use face recogniction software to only allow women onto the app. So if you are wanting to uphold these spaces, please do support Sall Grover in her quest to keep her app single sex.

salltweets on twitter.

Sall is the one on the right, being taken to Federal court by Roxy Tickle, on the left. For those who are not TERFs and do not understand the boundaries between male and female.

Her App - Terfs get out
ArabeIIaScott · 27/04/2023 09:55

Lwrenagain, I think it's good to be uncertain, tbh. Question yourself, keep asking questions, keep looking for evidence, keep examining your assumptions. I try to do the same.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 27/04/2023 10:13

Skankoot · 26/04/2023 20:59

One of us, one of us.

welcome to the dark side darling, the bad news is as pantomime villains go we're very disappointing - the goods news is as pantomime villains go we're very disappointing.

There's a line from a poem called the desiderata which says
"as far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all people"

What most of us here have in common I think is that we have found a trans ideology to make a demand which we couldn't agree with 'without surrender'.

If you draw any line at all that is you being too unreasonable, if you think past TWAW and add up to a point but not if... that is you being one of the difficult women.

The truth is it doesn't take much to be a difficult woman that's why there are so many of us.

MargotBamborough · 27/04/2023 10:20

@Lwrenagain

On prisons:

I think it's really important to remember that female prisoners have a really different profile to male prisoners. Firstly, there are far fewer of them. Female prisoners represent around 5% of the total prison population. There is an argument that men are more likely to be convicted or sentenced to a custodial sentence, and in particular that a sentencing judge will generally do what they can to keep a mother of young children out of prison. Perhaps men are discriminated against by the criminal justice system. Or perhaps they are just more likely to commit crimes.

What is clear, however, is that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be in prison for petty and non-violent crimes, but often as repeat offenders, which explains why a custodial sentence was eventually deemed necessary. The typical profile here would be a woman who is in prison for stealing money to buy drugs. What do these women have in common? Almost all of them are victims of male violence. They are women who aren't generally dangerous, but have slipped through the cracks in society, often as a result of being physically and/or sexually abused by male family members, partners, or in the case of women who have worked as prostitutes, pimps and traffickers. As a result, the majority of these women have had bad experiences with men and are afraid of them.

Even if you remove people like Karen White and Isla Bryson from the equation, if you send a 6ft, obviously male trans woman who has been convicted of fraud to a women's prison, you're still locking vulnerable female prisoners up with a member of the opposite sex.

Personally I think it's bad enough when some women feel forced to self-exclude from women's spaces because they are no longer single sex. For example, a Muslim woman who feels that she can no longer use any of the swimming ponds at Highgate Ponds, because the ladies' pond has now been made inclusive of trans women despite the fact that there is also a mixed sex pond. It's not right or fair that a woman should feel forced to self-exclude in that situation, but she has the ability to self-exclude if she feels she needs to for her own safety or dignity.

Women in prison can't do that. They are literally locked up. Locking them up with male prisoners, regardless of the reason, how that male identifies or what they have been convicted of, is unconscionable.

Prison isn't supposed to be a gender affirming space, just like toilets aren't supposed to be gender affirming, and rape crisis groups aren't supposed to be gender affirming, and competitive sports aren't supposed to be gender affirming.

They should be safe spaces, although they frequently aren't, and there is definitely a conversation to be had about how the prison system should protect vulnerable prisoners.

But to return to Muslims, about 20 years ago a young man named Zahid Mubarek was murdered by his cell mate in Feltham young offenders' institution. It was the last day of a three month sentence for petty crime, and he had been housed in the same cell as a violent racist who had been overheard threatening to kill him.

So yes, let's protect the safety of trans women in prison, by all means. And let's do so without compromising the safety and dignity of women in prison. But if I were the mother of someone like Zahid Mubarek, I'd also want to know why trans women deserved more protection than other vulnerable male prisoners like my son.

littlbrowndog · 27/04/2023 10:30

MargotBamborough · 27/04/2023 10:20

@Lwrenagain

On prisons:

I think it's really important to remember that female prisoners have a really different profile to male prisoners. Firstly, there are far fewer of them. Female prisoners represent around 5% of the total prison population. There is an argument that men are more likely to be convicted or sentenced to a custodial sentence, and in particular that a sentencing judge will generally do what they can to keep a mother of young children out of prison. Perhaps men are discriminated against by the criminal justice system. Or perhaps they are just more likely to commit crimes.

What is clear, however, is that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be in prison for petty and non-violent crimes, but often as repeat offenders, which explains why a custodial sentence was eventually deemed necessary. The typical profile here would be a woman who is in prison for stealing money to buy drugs. What do these women have in common? Almost all of them are victims of male violence. They are women who aren't generally dangerous, but have slipped through the cracks in society, often as a result of being physically and/or sexually abused by male family members, partners, or in the case of women who have worked as prostitutes, pimps and traffickers. As a result, the majority of these women have had bad experiences with men and are afraid of them.

Even if you remove people like Karen White and Isla Bryson from the equation, if you send a 6ft, obviously male trans woman who has been convicted of fraud to a women's prison, you're still locking vulnerable female prisoners up with a member of the opposite sex.

Personally I think it's bad enough when some women feel forced to self-exclude from women's spaces because they are no longer single sex. For example, a Muslim woman who feels that she can no longer use any of the swimming ponds at Highgate Ponds, because the ladies' pond has now been made inclusive of trans women despite the fact that there is also a mixed sex pond. It's not right or fair that a woman should feel forced to self-exclude in that situation, but she has the ability to self-exclude if she feels she needs to for her own safety or dignity.

Women in prison can't do that. They are literally locked up. Locking them up with male prisoners, regardless of the reason, how that male identifies or what they have been convicted of, is unconscionable.

Prison isn't supposed to be a gender affirming space, just like toilets aren't supposed to be gender affirming, and rape crisis groups aren't supposed to be gender affirming, and competitive sports aren't supposed to be gender affirming.

They should be safe spaces, although they frequently aren't, and there is definitely a conversation to be had about how the prison system should protect vulnerable prisoners.

But to return to Muslims, about 20 years ago a young man named Zahid Mubarek was murdered by his cell mate in Feltham young offenders' institution. It was the last day of a three month sentence for petty crime, and he had been housed in the same cell as a violent racist who had been overheard threatening to kill him.

So yes, let's protect the safety of trans women in prison, by all means. And let's do so without compromising the safety and dignity of women in prison. But if I were the mother of someone like Zahid Mubarek, I'd also want to know why trans women deserved more protection than other vulnerable male prisoners like my son.

🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽👏👏👏👏
excelent post

StaunchMomma · 27/04/2023 10:58

Forfrigz · 26/04/2023 17:26

Imagine Grindr sending out a message about how all gay men should be open to dating trans men who are biologically female. Wouldn't happen.

This was my first thought. Just would not happen and, surprise surprise, that will be just fine!

Lwrenagain · 27/04/2023 11:05

MargotBamborough · 27/04/2023 10:20

@Lwrenagain

On prisons:

I think it's really important to remember that female prisoners have a really different profile to male prisoners. Firstly, there are far fewer of them. Female prisoners represent around 5% of the total prison population. There is an argument that men are more likely to be convicted or sentenced to a custodial sentence, and in particular that a sentencing judge will generally do what they can to keep a mother of young children out of prison. Perhaps men are discriminated against by the criminal justice system. Or perhaps they are just more likely to commit crimes.

What is clear, however, is that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be in prison for petty and non-violent crimes, but often as repeat offenders, which explains why a custodial sentence was eventually deemed necessary. The typical profile here would be a woman who is in prison for stealing money to buy drugs. What do these women have in common? Almost all of them are victims of male violence. They are women who aren't generally dangerous, but have slipped through the cracks in society, often as a result of being physically and/or sexually abused by male family members, partners, or in the case of women who have worked as prostitutes, pimps and traffickers. As a result, the majority of these women have had bad experiences with men and are afraid of them.

Even if you remove people like Karen White and Isla Bryson from the equation, if you send a 6ft, obviously male trans woman who has been convicted of fraud to a women's prison, you're still locking vulnerable female prisoners up with a member of the opposite sex.

Personally I think it's bad enough when some women feel forced to self-exclude from women's spaces because they are no longer single sex. For example, a Muslim woman who feels that she can no longer use any of the swimming ponds at Highgate Ponds, because the ladies' pond has now been made inclusive of trans women despite the fact that there is also a mixed sex pond. It's not right or fair that a woman should feel forced to self-exclude in that situation, but she has the ability to self-exclude if she feels she needs to for her own safety or dignity.

Women in prison can't do that. They are literally locked up. Locking them up with male prisoners, regardless of the reason, how that male identifies or what they have been convicted of, is unconscionable.

Prison isn't supposed to be a gender affirming space, just like toilets aren't supposed to be gender affirming, and rape crisis groups aren't supposed to be gender affirming, and competitive sports aren't supposed to be gender affirming.

They should be safe spaces, although they frequently aren't, and there is definitely a conversation to be had about how the prison system should protect vulnerable prisoners.

But to return to Muslims, about 20 years ago a young man named Zahid Mubarek was murdered by his cell mate in Feltham young offenders' institution. It was the last day of a three month sentence for petty crime, and he had been housed in the same cell as a violent racist who had been overheard threatening to kill him.

So yes, let's protect the safety of trans women in prison, by all means. And let's do so without compromising the safety and dignity of women in prison. But if I were the mother of someone like Zahid Mubarek, I'd also want to know why trans women deserved more protection than other vulnerable male prisoners like my son.

You're absolutely right.
Lots of think about here. And it's really useful to see those things pointed out to help me make my thoughts and feelings much more solid on these issues.
Thank you x

And very insightful about muslim women who I've never discussed anything like this with so again it just shows layers and layers of complexity to consider.