Asked gender and pronouns on antenatal form

[bbypinkluffie]

So I’m 7 weeks today with my first, and yesterday I got given a midwife, and my first antenatal appointment was booked, and was told I had to fill this form out before the appointment, it had an entire section where the questions were “is the gender you were assigned at birth the gender you identify as now?” And “what gender do you identify as?” And “what are your pronouns?” I didn’t want to participate in their questions, as I don’t agree with gender ideology, I don’t want to have to “declare” myself a woman, I am one. I don’t want to “identify” as a woman, I am one. I’m pregnant for heavens sake! But regardless I filled out the entire gender section, saying yes I identify with my assigned gender at birth, I identify as female and my pronouns I chose as she/her. I only did this to avoid being asked during the appointment as it’s my first appointment and my first pregnancy and I don’t want it being ruined by being asked about pronouns. I only pray now I’ve jumped through their hoops I won’t be called a “pregnant person” or “birthing person” or “chest feeder” now. For heavens sake!

@bbypinkluffie

'constantly having this gender stuff shoved down my throat has really gotten to me, it may be the hormones.'

It really isn't your hormones. I'm post menopausal. It gives me the right hump.

This bollocks really needs to stop.
Like pp, I have put a line through my (pre-op) admission form. I don't engage with it at all.

And yes, this is a hill I'd die on.

Women's feelings are as important as those of trans people.

OP feels strongly about these questions.

Trans people feel strongly about these questions.

Why do the latter group get their way, while the former are ignored?

If its important to respect the gender identity of transpeople, it's also as important to respect the absence of gender identity of the vast majority of the populace.

Asking this question is precisely equivalent to asking about religious beliefs, imo.

There's nothing wrong with being Christian, and I don't mind being asked if I have religious beliefs, but I object to being asked if I accept JC as my lord and personal saviour because that is operating from a presumption that there is a correct way to answer.

I despair of us all for letting this happen.

For fuck's sale

What happens to their gender dysphoria when pregnant? (This question is why I don’t think we need to be pandering to their pronouns during pregnancy).

Thank you, I was starting to think I was being too sensitive, my grandma and mother would’ve never been asked gender identity or pronouns, or called “pregnant people” or “chestfeeders” my grandfather or father would’ve never been called “sperm producers” oh wait… neither is my partner (the father)! It’s always women who have to just put up with it.

You’d have to ask a trans pregnant person. I’ve no idea. Maybe they think they have a male uterus

OP I feel your pain.

Personally, I leave blank if electronic (and possible) and cross out and write 'sex' if on paper.

I must admit, like the OP, I have wondered, will I/DC be put at the back of the queue/will my application be mysteriously lost if I cross out 'gender' and write 'sex'? Can I ask any professionals - healthcare or others - that have to collate these forms, what is their usual reaction when they receive forms like mine? Thanks in advance for any answers!

BTW I find the Danish statue actually disturbing, which surprised even me.

To be fair none of us let it happen as such, there were rules in place and we trusted they'd be respected. We weren't asked our opinion beforehand, and don't have the power to make it stop.

I’m sure they can let the staff know themselves, without forcing the rest of us to participate in this circus.

I've read all of OP's comments but not the rest.

If I were in OP's shoes I'd be seeing these questions as portents of things to come, they're not done in isolation but rather as a whole package. A package of insults to women.

Who's to say the maternity unit (pregnant people unit?) won't be using dehumanising language like 'birthing person' or even 'birthing body'? It's what I'd be expecting after seeing an ante natal form like that.

Every day I give thanks that I'm no longer a midwife.

The arrogance 😬
Useful is not the term I'd use, personally.

I’d suggest the NHS asking every pregnant woman if she’s a man, and spending ridiculous amounts of money on this rubbish when claiming to be on their knees, is far, far more ridiculous.

@RedToothBrush

You are so right!
I wish I could have explained it like this.

Declaring you are a midwife on a thread like this is what is known as 'an appeal to authority' in propaganda terms.

It's purpose is to asset your credentials and authority on the internet. It's a declaration of power.

The midwife then goes to put down the OP (a patient) telling her, that her feelings are invalid because no one else shares them. Thus trying to isolate the OP and suggest to her that she is being petty and her concerns point are not acceptable.

Remember in this the power dynamic with the midwife's appeal to authority over the OP (patient).

Even on an anonymous forum, this is where we are seeing attempts to silence women by saying they shouldnt complain because other people's feelings are more important. This is power over women by genderists.

The patient (OP) then feels as if there is little point in complaining because the midwife (representation of power and authority in the NHS on this thread) isn't listening or taking her concerns seriously.

It's a good example of ingrained power and propaganda to silence on the internet and in real life.

Massive scandals in hospitals have occurred due to people being deterred or finding it hard to complain.

If there are no complaints then the system says there is no problem. Even if you have thousands of women all feeling like the OP.

Remember the midwives themselves have all been trained (brainwashed) from above on this subject. And many don't feel they can back up how patients might feel because that might threaten their jobs.

I don't think the midwife-identifing poster said OP shouldn't complain, that was a different poster. If I've read correctly.

By saying 'ive never had complaints' she is inadvertently saying 'your complaint is invalid' and isolating the OP. This WILL deter the OP if it isn't countered by others. Whether the intention is to silence deliberately or not the effect is the same. Certainly that poster clearly had genderwoo beliefs.

That STILL is a power dynamic.

A midwife should be saying 'if something has really upset you make a complain so that the system can see the effect on patients.'

If there is sufficient concern about how this alienates patients it may spark a review of procedure that improves things for women.

This default that we will do things so we don't upset x group but instead offends a whole group of other people who then feel disempowered and disrespected isn't a solution.

If there is a problem which women dislike, it should be seen and reviewed.

Not more of this shit which tries to condition women to STFU.

Nope.

i “declared” myself as a midwife as I’m trying t9 explain that individual midwives don’t have the power to make these decisions about the questions on the form. That if we upset people we can reported to the nmc. I have not told her nobody else shares her feelings so I don’t feel I’ve put her down. I told her she should complain. I’m not a “genderist”, I’ve said I don’t believe in gender. I’m on every terf blocker list going on Twitter.

And I don’t appreciate being called thick, can you try and keep personal insults out of it please?

The ultimate point is that women feel that powerless that they don't feel they can complain

This - I wouldn't complain because I need HCP on side and frankly there may well be other pg related concerns I'd have to prioritize.

Doesn't mean I would not find the questions alienating and be annoyed at my forced compliance with them.

And it's why you need a midwife to not say things like 'well no one else has complained' in an unprofessional manner...

It's politicising and still putting a woman into a power dynamic which makes her feel that you already have a side. It's not ok.

Well, Snugglemonkey, your "... the fact that for many, it is not a biological fact" undercuts your whole set of beliefs (or 'ideology', for short). The "for many" gives the game away; facts are not 'for' anybody.

It cannot be a fact that what is a fact for some is not a fact for others. To see why, and glimpse the import, suppose the contrary: that it could be a fact that what is a fact for you may not be a fact for me. From this it would follow that it could be that it is not a fact for me, and so not a fact.

So if it is a fact (that what is a fact for some may be not a fact for others), then it isn't a fact. So it isn't a fact. In other words, it isn't (couldn't be) true.

(Of course some (even many) might think so-and-so is a fact when actually it isn't. That's different. We are used to people being mistaken, even about themselves: "I'm cool." (Erh ...) ... "Women find me attractive." (Well, ...) ... "I have a gendered soul" (Nope; sorry, no such thing ...))

This is pretty much the same with most genres of cognitive relativism. It cannot be true that there is no objective truth, for instance, because, well, again - think about it - if it's true then it's false; so it's false.

Interesting? - Some of us think so.

Moral? - Ideologies ('sets of beliefs') that depend on relativism of facticity or truth are self-negating. So they are universally false. Among these; most forms of transgender ideology.

Do you see Snugglemonkey? (I suspect that not, but there you go.)

You sound like you are promoting conversion therapy @Snugglemonkey

Affirmation only please!

Besides, asking "what is my gender identity" is not a route to therapy, it's a plain and simple question about what on earth this thing is you are asking me to confirm or not? It's not a well known concept. Is everyone who has never heard this crazy talk (as my non English speaking MIL would say) anti trans?

The census proved that people answer this in a lot of different ways as it's as clear as mud.

I always try to tick 'other' for how I identify then say I don't identity as any gender but am a woman so please use correct sex based pronouns or something like that. Or cross gender out and put sex. If there is enough space I point out that sex is the protected characteristic they should be recording.

Which midwife said that?