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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman thread 2

354 replies

AdamRyan · 06/04/2023 08:52

As we filled up thread one eith our battling over whether it's feminist or racist to support Suella Braverman's weekend statements, I thought another would be good.

Here's some of what she said:

"What's clear is what we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls, sometimes who are in care, sometimes in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who've worked in child abuse rings or networks. We've seen institutions and state agencies, whether it's social workers, teachers, the police turn a blind eye to these signs of abuse out of political correctness, out of fear of being called racist, out of fear of being called bigoted. And as a result, thousands, we are not talking small numbers, we are talking large numbers, thousands of children have had their childhoods robbed and devastated. And there are many of these perpetrators still running wild, behaving in this way. And it's now down to the authorities to track these perpetrators down, without fear or favour, relentlessly and bring them to justice"

Sunak has since rowed back on this and the Home Offices own research suggests there is not enough quality research to say any particular ethnicity is disproportionately involved in "grooming gangs"

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jgw1 · 11/04/2023 17:49

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:46

So you won't apologise for your disgusting smear but instead double down. Exactly WHAT conclusions would anyone come to in my logical and moral refusal to be force teamed into agreeing with you? I mean, they could always compare posting histories.

I am pretty sure I am not forcing you do anything.

Either you agree that the governments consistent underfunding of key services is appauling or you do not. That is entirely up to you.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:50

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 15:09

Which brings us neatly back to the original question.

Why did Braverman pick "British Pakistani men" and not priests to talk about?

Because the current issue is about grooming gangs. Any other irrelevant comparisons?

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 17:53

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:50

Because the current issue is about grooming gangs. Any other irrelevant comparisons?

Given that about half of sexual assaults occur at home with the perpetrator being a close family member why is that not the current issue?

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 17:54

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:50

Because the current issue is about grooming gangs. Any other irrelevant comparisons?

I think you are correct that churches and other religions of all kinds have stopped allowing their employees and volunteers to abuse children and they have stopped covering up such abuse.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:58

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 17:49

I am pretty sure I am not forcing you do anything.

Either you agree that the governments consistent underfunding of key services is appauling or you do not. That is entirely up to you.

I'm absolutely certain you're trying yo and it doesn't work. I'm not afraid to say I would be checking your allegations very carefully, especially as they've already been disputed by at least one credible mumsnetter. Which I have done and she was right, what you're saying is incorrect.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:01

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 17:53

Given that about half of sexual assaults occur at home with the perpetrator being a close family member why is that not the current issue?

Yes, let's ignore the huge grooming gang scandal. It's quite horrifying to see someone trying to deflect. But then you're not a feminist and you're completely uninterested in the safety of young girls.

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 18:03

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:58

I'm absolutely certain you're trying yo and it doesn't work. I'm not afraid to say I would be checking your allegations very carefully, especially as they've already been disputed by at least one credible mumsnetter. Which I have done and she was right, what you're saying is incorrect.

You have completely lost me, what allegations are you going to check carefully?

That underfunding key services leads to worse outcomes?

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 18:05

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:01

Yes, let's ignore the huge grooming gang scandal. It's quite horrifying to see someone trying to deflect. But then you're not a feminist and you're completely uninterested in the safety of young girls.

No, much better to ignore where sexual abuse is more likely to happen.

AdamRyan · 11/04/2023 18:25

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 17:48

If that question was serious, there are quite a few. Young black men from all social groups and young working-class white men to name just two.

Yes it was serious

How do you know that white and black men are treated more harshly for child abuse than their Pakistani/priest/trans counterparts?

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Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:57

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 18:05

No, much better to ignore where sexual abuse is more likely to happen.

Oh look - a squirrel! Yet women are still going to talk about the dangers of grooming gangs no matter what you come out with because we're able to understand more than one thing.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:59

AdamRyan · 11/04/2023 18:25

Yes it was serious

How do you know that white and black men are treated more harshly for child abuse than their Pakistani/priest/trans counterparts?

There is no way it was a serious question given the follow-up.

AdamRyan · 11/04/2023 19:07

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:59

There is no way it was a serious question given the follow-up.

It was. I really don't understand this feeling that some men are more protected than others. It often seems to be right wing men who say "white working class men are the most disadvantaged", with no evidence.

When there's suspicion British Pakistani men are over represented, that's cultural and they arentbeing dealt with harshly enough. But if its white men, its unfair.

I would love to see your stats tho - I suspect you don't have any

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jgw1 · 11/04/2023 19:13

AdamRyan · 11/04/2023 19:07

It was. I really don't understand this feeling that some men are more protected than others. It often seems to be right wing men who say "white working class men are the most disadvantaged", with no evidence.

When there's suspicion British Pakistani men are over represented, that's cultural and they arentbeing dealt with harshly enough. But if its white men, its unfair.

I would love to see your stats tho - I suspect you don't have any

I don't need stats. I know.

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 19:16

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:57

Oh look - a squirrel! Yet women are still going to talk about the dangers of grooming gangs no matter what you come out with because we're able to understand more than one thing.

I think it is bit unfair to suggest that Braverman's sudden interest in grooming gangs is a squirrel, but I suppose one doesn't have to stretch ones imagination too far to think that.

But Jeremy Corbyn.

AdamRyan · 11/04/2023 19:24

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/suella-braverman-makes-views-very-plain-to-police-over-golliwog-doll-seizure-from-essex-pub-12854721

Most interesting thing about this story is Essex police say she hasn't contacted them.

Perhaps she could get on with convicting sex offenders rather than stressing about pub owners

Suella Braverman makes views 'very plain' to police over golliwog doll seizure from Essex pub

Police deny they have been contacted directly by Ms Braverman and say they investigate all allegations independently. Owner Benice Ryley said she "can't see any harm" in keeping the dolls.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/suella-braverman-makes-views-very-plain-to-police-over-golliwog-doll-seizure-from-essex-pub-12854721

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jgw1 · 11/04/2023 19:36

One of the great saddnesses of recent years is the hollowing out of the Tory party such that moderates like Warsi have no place in it.

Howpo · 12/04/2023 07:24

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/04/2023 18:01

Yes, let's ignore the huge grooming gang scandal. It's quite horrifying to see someone trying to deflect. But then you're not a feminist and you're completely uninterested in the safety of young girls.

Anyone genuinely interested in the safety of women and young girls, would judge the Tories very harshly, their record over 13 years is appalling.

From cuts to child care to the Police to the justice system to even cutting DV refuge's, they have failed women and girls - i mean a female raped today will wait approx 3 years to see her case come to trial and then have a tiny chance of a conviction.
1 in 4 women leave work or education because they cannot access childcare.

50% of calls to DV refuge's results in the caller being turned away, no capacity.

Bravermans talk is just that, she could have announced policies, extra funding, the issues surrounding CSA are well understood, instead we get a "consultation" not even any timescales :(

Yet many so called female advocates, put party loyalty before female safety.

Howpo · 12/04/2023 07:26

jgw1 · 11/04/2023 19:36

One of the great saddnesses of recent years is the hollowing out of the Tory party such that moderates like Warsi have no place in it.

Most bizarrely the pro EEC/EU/SM/CU Maggie Thatcher would have been purged after 2016 too.
Look no further than ex ministers who served under her who have left the party.

jgw1 · 12/04/2023 08:12

Howpo · 12/04/2023 07:26

Most bizarrely the pro EEC/EU/SM/CU Maggie Thatcher would have been purged after 2016 too.
Look no further than ex ministers who served under her who have left the party.

Left is I think important word in this context. Those who no longer find a home in the Tory party are relatively leftwing.

Howpo · 12/04/2023 08:29

Relative to what? todays Tory party have far more in common with Europe's Freedom Party, RN, AFD & in some ways e.g immigration, anti EU & social security/health far more right wing.

jgw1 · 12/04/2023 08:52

Howpo · 12/04/2023 08:29

Relative to what? todays Tory party have far more in common with Europe's Freedom Party, RN, AFD & in some ways e.g immigration, anti EU & social security/health far more right wing.

Maybe I wasn't clear. The current Tory party is so far to the right that those who don't find a home in it appear to be lefties, like Thatcher.

RealityFan · 12/04/2023 11:24

AdamRyan · 11/04/2023 19:24

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/suella-braverman-makes-views-very-plain-to-police-over-golliwog-doll-seizure-from-essex-pub-12854721

Most interesting thing about this story is Essex police say she hasn't contacted them.

Perhaps she could get on with convicting sex offenders rather than stressing about pub owners

Forget Braverman's "role" here. That the police were even involved re this pub is a joke.

AdamRyan · 12/04/2023 14:01

RealityFan · 12/04/2023 11:24

Forget Braverman's "role" here. That the police were even involved re this pub is a joke.

I'd agree if it was just the golliw*gs but the landlord has been spouting racist stuff on Facebook alongside pictures of then. And hate speech is a crime.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11961673/amp/Pub-landlord-centre-golliwogs-row-denies-hes-racist-White-Lives-Matter-posts.html

In another post, Chris Ryley wrote: 'They used to hang them in Mississippi years ago' alongside a picture of the dolls hanging from his bar

Mississippi - News and Updates on the US State | Daily Mail Online

Get news and updates on Mississippi, the US State, from Mail Online.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/mississippi/index.html

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AdamRyan · 12/04/2023 14:04

And I wouldn't even know about it if Braverman wasn't making such a big deal of protecting racists

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