Suella Braverman thread 2

[AdamRyan]

As we filled up thread one eith our battling over whether it's feminist or racist to support Suella Braverman's weekend statements, I thought another would be good.

Here's some of what she said:

"What's clear is what we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls, sometimes who are in care, sometimes in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who've worked in child abuse rings or networks. We've seen institutions and state agencies, whether it's social workers, teachers, the police turn a blind eye to these signs of abuse out of political correctness, out of fear of being called racist, out of fear of being called bigoted. And as a result, thousands, we are not talking small numbers, we are talking large numbers, thousands of children have had their childhoods robbed and devastated. And there are many of these perpetrators still running wild, behaving in this way. And it's now down to the authorities to track these perpetrators down, without fear or favour, relentlessly and bring them to justice"

Sunak has since rowed back on this and the Home Offices own research suggests there is not enough quality research to say any particular ethnicity is disproportionately involved in "grooming gangs"

Good luck with the project though - do keep in touch and let us all know how it's going.

RE: I'm not much interested in conversing with someone who misrepresents arguments for the purpose of political point scoring, and who reduces complexity and nuance to black and white dogma. So boring!

I'd like to see your back -up evidence for that. It is patently nonsense.

There are no height categories in most/any sports - tall and short play alongside each other in football, tennis, athletics - but sports are segregated into male and female for good reasons. Even though very tall for a woman - any number of shorter male junior players would be able to beat Serena Williams.

Average male height - 5'10
Average female height - 5'4
Difference 6 inches

5th centile male height is between 5'4 and 5'5

95th centile is 6'2
Difference 9 inches

5th centile female height 4'11
95th centile between 5'8 and 5'9
Difference 9 inches

So JGW is right

You have falsely assumed that people here are Tory supporters - just because they don't agree with you on every issue. Why would people feel a need to defend their record?

You and a couple of others originally subverted a thread for the purpose of bashing Suella Braverman. In doing that you constructed a dynamic of exchange which exists only in your own head.

Duh!

The false point being made was that the difference between male and female, in terms of physicality, is less significant than that between two women of different heights. It is nonsense.

Come on. I know that it is fashionable to dispute facts now.
Earlier in this thread there was someone argueing that for all creatures on earth males were dominant. In the previous version of this thread there was someone argueing that there hadn't been 25% cuts to the Ministry of Justice budget since 2010. All of which are facts that cannot be disuputed.

Sat here in my living room watching the world go past, it is fairly clear to me that men range in height from well over 6 foot to about 5 foot. Unless the average man is more than 6 inches taller than the average woman then my statement is true.

Do you really want me to look up what the average heights of men and woman are to further prove my point?

I think you are right, there are probably no Tory supporters on these threads, which is why no one is defending them.

Why is it then that whenever a Tory politicans get mentioned on here, we have to humour posters who want to go whatabout all manner of things? We get what about Jeremy Corbyn, what about Keir's beer, what about Boris knows what a woman is pretty regualarly. Why do they do it?

Oh look, someone has looked up for you that the difference in height between an average man and an average woman for you.

Do you now accept that the difference in height between the tallest man and shortest man, is greater than the difference in height between an average man and an average woman?

I have never used the word dominance. I've consistently used the word difference.

It is you who seem to be disputing the fact that males are in general stronger than females - even given height differentials.

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make by suggesting some males/females are shorter and some males/females are taller - as if to suggest that just because in some species of bird, fish or insect the female is generally larger than the male, then it makes sexed differences redundant. It doesn't.

So what if there is a greater height differential between males than between females? There are also greater differentials for other qualities too.

what's your point?

My point was entirely that there is a greater height difference between the tallest and shortest females (or males) and an average female and average male.

That was the whole point I was making.

Quite why someone saw fit to argue with it I don't know.
But it seems that any apparently innocous fact can be disputed these days.
I posted on a previous version of this thread that there had been 25% cuts to the Ministry of Justice funding since 2010. Someone wanted to dispute that as well.
It really is a mystery to me why people would argue about things that are demonstrably true.

You are correct, you did not use the word dominance, but in replying to another post it did seem that you were saying that all male creatures dominate all female creatures on Earth. (it may be different on other planets).

Could you locate that post please. -and then we can discuss further.

Until then you are just making it up or re-interpreting/misrepresenting in order to suit your purpose - because your closed system of thinking simply cannot cope with alternative information.

I await the evidence.

You are just making it up or re-interpreting/misrepresenting in order to suit your purpose - because your closed system of thinking simply cannot cope with alternative information.

Now that we have established broad agreement with the simple fact that the average height of a man or a woman is closer to each other than to the extremes. I wonder if we might extend that to to other examples?

Is the average 5k time of a man closer to that of an average woman, or the fastest man?

Jgw said:
The difference between a tall man and a short man, or a tall woman and a short woman is much greater than the difference between an average man and an average woman.

You said:
I'd like to see your back -up evidence for that. It is patently nonsense.

Turns out it is patently true.

I don't know why you wanted to argue in the first place, but you were wrong

There you go

In most "creatures" aka animals females are larger than males but don't let the facts disrupt your world view

Don't worry i try very hard not to let facts interrupt my opinions, the latter being far more important.

The difference between male and female heights is pretty marked.

And here’s a comparison of muscle strength:

So for strength, before old age, if you’re in the strongest fifty percent of men, you’re stronger than almost every woman.

Sorry, only had time to do a very quick search. Basically, if you’re a healthy man, and have put any effort whatsoever into strength training, you can pretty much guarantee being stronger than any woman you meet. If you decide to take on a woman who dedicated her entire life to strength training, you may possibly come across an outlier, but I’d presume you would be able to see that possibility by looking at them.

For under 40s, I should have said, if you’re in the strongest three quarters of men, you’re stronger than any woman.