Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse

[IwantToRetire]

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

Yes. I do.

I suspect many will take the more palatable option. Which is why this injustice against these girls has been allowed to continue for years and years.

Why do you think she doesn't?

I really hate the way that people have made her such a target for vilification. I don't know how she copes with it. It is rampant and unconstrained. Just as bad as that which JK Rowling is subject to.

I really hate the way that people have made her such a target for vilification. I don't know how she copes with it. It is rampant and unconstrained. Just as bad as that which JK Rowling is subject to

I agree.

Why would you assume that I wouldn’t?

would you support using that information to prevent these crimes and safeguard some very vulnerable young women, or would you think another investigation should be carried out, on repeat, until you get the answers you’d find more palatable?

Important question isn’t it.

On a slight tangent - but the suggestions are that the gangs are also comprised of Kurdish men. Honour killing and violenece against women is prolific in Kurdish communities.

Because you don’t accept the current evidence and want another investigation.

Ayan Hirsi Ali in her book 'Prey' talks of how the phenomena of grooming is not unique to men of muslim background in the u.k, but also in Holland and in Sweden where this a phenomena called Lover Boy' - which effectively comprises the same set of techniques and practices used to take advantage of vulnerable and marginalised girls in the U.k.

Hirsi Ali also looks at the way that certain areas in major european cities have become no-go areas for women due to the large number of often illegal migrants of uneducated muslim background that have been placed there. She says Leftist groups, local refugee organisation, and the police effectively turn a blind eye to the exploitation of women in these areas - just as they do here.

I totally agree

Hirsi Ali is excellent. She's well worth a read / listen. A brave knowledgeable woman.

I don’t think that recognising that the various people and organisations who should have done or do something decided that a narrative or ‘oh we couldn’t say or do anything because we’d be vilified for being racist’ was a convenient way to avoid facing up to the misogyny and classism in any way suggests I’m looking for a nice, ‘palatable’ answer to anything.

Actually uncovering what’s going on and solving the real problem to safeguard vulnerable women and girls - regardless of how ‘palatable’ the truth is to certain ideological positions - is exactly what we should be aiming for.

I don’t think that, rhetorically, braverman helps us get there though. She’s the Home Secretary, so I think we can expect her to communicate this stuff more effectively.

Instead what we get is reactionary shite about dog whistles and such like.

Yes, she does need to raise issues of how culture may intersect with misogyny and classism in this type of crime. And, of course, we actually need to know what role that plays.

But I don’t believe that braveman’s
approach to present this as an evil British-Pakistani other is the best way to achieve what we need to. As the ‘dog whistle’ responses show, it makes it all too easy to fit people to just dismiss this as populist racism playing to the brexity gammon crowd (feel free to swap for whichever other crap insults you like there).

That’s not expecting women to police their tone or speech or whatever. Because she’s the Home Secretary speaking about a terrible problem within her professional portfolio.

That said, I do think she’s getting much more criticism because she’s female. This stuff is just as bad when male politicians do it. And they do. All the bloody time. I’m sure there are plenty of senior male labour politicians who’ve jumped straight to ‘racist dogwhistle’ (and similar empty, insult-driven media soundbites) rather than addressing the fucking issue.

I don’t think the current evidence is good enough. No.

Because it actually hasn’t produce the properly high quality evidence this issue deserves.

It’s hampered on many sides - and that’s not good enough.

I'm so sick of this stuff being played down. For years and years. Those that continue to do this need to take a long hard look at themselves.

It's a very tricky situation. Well meaning westerners who want to stand up against racism.... then you have migrant adult males who have grown up in a misogynistic culture where women are covered and kept indoors.
There seems to be very little willingness from the former to acknowledge the fact that the latter do not shed their mysogynistic culture just because they have arrived in a western one.

Regarding the 'report'. Of course the majority of perpetrators of child sexual abuse are white in a white majority country.
It's when there is an over represented demographic that is notable.

I don’t think the current evidence is good enough. No.

Of course you don't. Potentially 100,000 girls raped and money made off the back of that for those men pimping them out. Nope nothing to see here. Still not enough evidence.

There is also the considerable and vital question of police, home-office and judicial system resources. See Nazir Afzal's posts on Twitter https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/1642641672877092866 (he knows what he's talking about). Prevention resources pulled, under resourced courts system means a minute percentage of cases is actually fully investigated and prosecuted. It's all very well making headline-grabbing announcements, it's a lot harder to actually follow through with well thought-out actions which will result in change.

For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.

It would be wrong to assume grooming gangs are only about Pakistani heritage Muslim men. It would also be wrong not to address and acknowledge the gangs that were Pakistani Muslim men chose their victims based on vulnerability and the fact they were white. As the harrowing testimony of some of those victims showed us, they were repeatedly verbally abused and ‘white wh*’ etc was a predominant theme. The victims themselves have talked about this. The link above seemed to downplay the intentional targeting of white girls.

i really don’t think people actually read anything people write on here.

I have actually said, several times, that these crimes are enabled by societal perceptions of the victims as expendable or even as to blame for what happens to them. This is unacceptable.

And it’s also part of the problem with this being all grandstanding and soundbite driven. Because actual, detailed, high quality evidence is what’s needed.

That evidence is likely to be extremely damning in all sorts of ways - but not that fit the single narrative people are desperate to have on this issue.

None of that is somehow wanting to deny that deep seated misogyny and racism within some elements of the British Pakistani population is going to be part of the problem.

Do you equally condemn Braverman for vilifying those who arrive in the UK seeking asylum?

And it’s also part of the problem with this being all grandstanding and soundbite driven. Because actual, detailed, high quality evidence is what’s needed.

And hopefully those years of evidence that has previously been ignored will now finally be considered.

Me?

Absolutely. Possibly more so than in this case. That’s another very complex issue that braverman’s rhetorical approach does not do any favours.

And the Rwanda policy is problematic in various ways.

This.

And someone is going to actually DO something.

I really do hope so. It's been a long time coming.