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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Help me reply to my "BeKind" brother in NZ, please!

177 replies

Fubbs · 28/03/2023 09:34

I'm in a WhatsApp group with my Dad (in Ireland, as I am) and brother (in NZ for years). I've been trying to explain what's been happening to women's rights but it's ended up that they have expressed compassion for Barbie Kardashian so I've plainly failed (although my Dad did post that Monty Python "because I say I am" speech so I think he's not totally on board).

(Bit of a lead up to it, before that particular part of the conversation, I got the "KJK is a Nazi, not welcome here" line from my brother. I pointed out she'd been attacked and Nazis were in Australia and he didn't mention that and denied the Nazis were there and said there were more protesters than attendees at the Auckland Let Women Speak meeting (I think that proves KJK isn't popular for him). He didn't bother reading thecountess.ie for a very good summary of the issues. He's married with a wife, two boys and a girl. I'm married, two boys).

I asked why it was okay to house a violent man (to be fair, my brother hasn't tried to correct my sex-based pronoun use) with women and he gave me "prison authorities are doing their best for everyone), I countered that women have rights too and that includes single sex spaces. Final message so far (there's quite a time delay) and woke up (I'd my phone on silent, I've been waking at night in turmoil that he doesn't see it and is happy to basically throw me to the wolves):

"Yes, your position has been made clear.

need legal (legislative, judicial, enforcement) society/facilities/legal institutions to figure the mess out for all.

An example I shared earlier about professional level sports bodies [athletics] making a deision, regarding competing, shows it is possible but even that is not the end of it but a single step in a conversation, a process, an evolution.

It will not be straightworward nor easy nor quick but it will requre a lot of hard work from everybody on a good faith basis, because that is where most of us are and I hope not in a bad actor basis because that is the horrific but rare example, abhorrent to all"

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MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 30/03/2023 22:01

RosaBonheur · 30/03/2023 20:47

The question about whether "living as a woman" is more attractive in certain countries than in others is an interesting one.

I can't speak for any country other than France, and even when speaking about France, this is only my opinion.

But I do not think that "living as a woman" is a negative thing in France. Yes, there is some everyday sexism here that we might not see so much in the UK. Equality between the sexes is an important pillar of the constitution. It's written into the civil marriage vows which everyone marrying in France has to make, they'll question you about it in your citizenship interview etc. The symbol of France, Marianne, is a woman. So I do think women and womanhood itself are valued and respected in France.

When it comes to men vs women, the French believe we are equal but not the same. They even have a phrase, "vive la différence !" which basically means men are from Mars and women are from Venus but we should celebrate our differences.

In short, I doubt men in France are less likely to want to identify as a woman due to perceived low status of women.

Interesting - I was thinking about this recently. (I am a Brit but with most of my family in France and I grew up partially there). I agree with you that the differences between the sexes are more emphasised in France, in both good and bad ways - creates a lot of pressure on women to conform to feminine stereotypes. But that being the case, I'm surprised that transitioning isn't more attractive to AGP men, and to those who get off on the whole cissy porn aspect of being despised for appearing female.

My theory is that the French habit of not giving a fuck extends to refusing to pander to TRAs. The best way to guarantee that the French will refuse to do anything is to tell them they have to do it! The Brits are altogether more compliant.

RosaBonheur · 30/03/2023 22:13

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 30/03/2023 22:01

Interesting - I was thinking about this recently. (I am a Brit but with most of my family in France and I grew up partially there). I agree with you that the differences between the sexes are more emphasised in France, in both good and bad ways - creates a lot of pressure on women to conform to feminine stereotypes. But that being the case, I'm surprised that transitioning isn't more attractive to AGP men, and to those who get off on the whole cissy porn aspect of being despised for appearing female.

My theory is that the French habit of not giving a fuck extends to refusing to pander to TRAs. The best way to guarantee that the French will refuse to do anything is to tell them they have to do it! The Brits are altogether more compliant.

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I think that's spot on, actually.

They don't place nearly so much importance on "being kind" either. If they are kind, it'll be because they want to be, not because someone has told them to.

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