Help me reply to my "BeKind" brother in NZ, please!

[Fubbs]

I'm in a WhatsApp group with my Dad (in Ireland, as I am) and brother (in NZ for years). I've been trying to explain what's been happening to women's rights but it's ended up that they have expressed compassion for Barbie Kardashian so I've plainly failed (although my Dad did post that Monty Python "because I say I am" speech so I think he's not totally on board).

(Bit of a lead up to it, before that particular part of the conversation, I got the "KJK is a Nazi, not welcome here" line from my brother. I pointed out she'd been attacked and Nazis were in Australia and he didn't mention that and denied the Nazis were there and said there were more protesters than attendees at the Auckland Let Women Speak meeting (I think that proves KJK isn't popular for him). He didn't bother reading thecountess.ie for a very good summary of the issues. He's married with a wife, two boys and a girl. I'm married, two boys).

I asked why it was okay to house a violent man (to be fair, my brother hasn't tried to correct my sex-based pronoun use) with women and he gave me "prison authorities are doing their best for everyone), I countered that women have rights too and that includes single sex spaces. Final message so far (there's quite a time delay) and woke up (I'd my phone on silent, I've been waking at night in turmoil that he doesn't see it and is happy to basically throw me to the wolves):

"Yes, your position has been made clear.

need legal (legislative, judicial, enforcement) society/facilities/legal institutions to figure the mess out for all.

An example I shared earlier about professional level sports bodies [athletics] making a deision, regarding competing, shows it is possible but even that is not the end of it but a single step in a conversation, a process, an evolution.

It will not be straightworward nor easy nor quick but it will requre a lot of hard work from everybody on a good faith basis, because that is where most of us are and I hope not in a bad actor basis because that is the horrific but rare example, abhorrent to all"

Yes, although men are actually very scared of rape, in situations where it is a plausible risk for them - usually prisons and conflict zones. But few of them are self-reflective enough to consider that women are dealing with this same risk every day, literally from the cradle to the grave.

Sadly, for some straight men, I think there is also a belief that raping a women is not as bad as raping a straight man because sex is what women are for.

This.

or message

“I don’t agree with you. Let’s leave it there.”

This Kelly Willis lyric just popped into my head and it's very wise

"And what in the world is all this talkin' for?
Nobody's ever changed nobody's mind about what's right
In front of them"

Sums it up.

He sounds thick as shit. I'd just reply with lol

I'd let him catch up with your thinking, with the tipping point that will inevitably come. Until then, you are doing all the hard work for a man with fingers in his ears. He needs another man explain it to him, that day will come. Good on you for trying.

Oof

It’s too hard to do this over WhatsApp

It’s heated enough in person

Tell him that you identify as him and that you are moving in and you’ll find any objections he may raise hurtful and erasing. Budge up bro: You, your wife and kids need to make room for us - we’re a tiny percentage of the human population, so I’m sure’ll happily oblige to validate my identity as you!

Don’t bother talking to him about this complete shit that is ripping us all up inside. You love him but you don’t really like him. One of my brothers is the same. I just talk to him at family functions in a polite and distant way. We completely disagree with each other on all political convos. In saying that, he is my brother. I love him. I just don’t like him. if he ever needs me when the chips are down however, I will be there for him, probs until death (womb to tomb as they say…),

KJK is not a Nazi, she’s not even right wing. She was a member of the Labour party.

He should ask himself why they lied and what other lies are they telling.

Though, personally, all I had to do in the end was show DH a photo of the delightful Jacinta Brookes and say “They say this is a woman. Are you happy for “her” to use the female facilities with your daughter??”

He most certainly was not!!

My brother’s like this. Mid 30s and such an insufferable twat when he thinks he’s right. He also does this nasty, aggressive pause where he looks at you conveying his disapproval and waiting for you to cave in and back down. I just don’t talk to him about it.

I personally despise « you’ve been taken in… ». I am an intelligent person with critical thinking skills. I haven’t been taken in. I’ve thought about it and we have a different opinion. That doesn’t mean I’m a gullible fool. People who can’t tolerate difference of opinion are best not engaged with.

Ironically my brother laughingly recounted a story where a TW hit on him and he replied « nah mate, you’ve got the wrong junk for me », and doesn’t recognise this as rank transphobia, but will angrily rage about « T**fs ». Obviously he also doesn’t recognise that at 6’2 and a former rugby playing CrossFit enthusiast there’s a reason he gets no comeback for such a transphobic remark.

IME, blokes who like to see themselves as ‘nice guys’, especially when this pretence positions them superior to women, putting women in a humiliating position of needing to plead for our basic rights to be recognised, they love to mansplain, play devil’s advocate, sea lion, etc.

I have found that the only thing that actually gets through their thick heads is pure, hot-headed aggression, even if it is out of character for you.

Shouting “I DO NOT GAF WHAT BITS A BLOKE GETS STUCK ON, CHOPPED OFF, WTF HE WEARS. HE NEEDS TO RESPECT MY F-ING SEX, OUR BOUNDARIES AND STAY OUT OF OUT F-ING SPACES. DO NOT EVER TALK THIS BULLSHIT TO ME EVER AGAIN. ARE WE FUCKING CLEAR, DICKHEAD?”

Unfortunately men seem to respond to this sort of thing much better than they do well reasoned and evidenced arguments.

Your DB is an arse - sorry!
To his sarky TERF message, I'd reply :
I'm surprised at your lack of respect, empathy and intellectual curiosity. Perhaps you are unaware that terf is a slur. I can accept you are prioritising the group you see as most marginalised (mainly white, middle-class biological males) whilst I'm genuinely centring the most vulnerable (women, disabled, religious minorities). If you ever want to learn more about the issues, I'm happy to suggest reading materials from respected academics. Until then, there is no benefit in discussing this topic further.

Wait until tomorrow but this kind of thing is good

I don’t think that sort of thing does work. The years I wasted being reasonable. They need shock tactics.

Haha just read your other post.. it’s heartfelt 😬

😂 Maybe you don’t need to call him names, but you do need to let him know that he needs to back the fuck off, because he is a man, taking my rights, as a woman away, and giving them to his fellow men. That is crossing the fucking line.

This isn't a million miles away from my response to my sister's announcement that her clearly male neighbour 'is a woman now'.

Women have spent millennia being reasonable and where TF has it got us?

Emotion, stonewalling, dismissal, condescension, refusal to engage - play them at their own game.

You say he has a daughter. How old is she? Would he be happy if boys in her class identified as girls and shared the showers with her after p.e. lessons?

Good on you!

And did you notice how Posie saying “I mean fuck off. Just FUCK OFF” got through to those triggernometry guys better than any other argument?

Ladies. Stand up for yourselves and don’t put up with men’s bullshit. Even if they are your brother or some fellas being ‘objective’ and ‘impartial’. These are YOUR RIGHTS you are defending. It may be some trifling abstraction to them, but it is not to you.

This will totally trigger him, so it's a nuclear option but, if you really want to get under his skin, tell him you are concerned for his DD:

I want 'Emily' to have a fair chance at sports and not to lose out to a man [link to a story about Lia Thomas]

I want Emily to be able to use changing rooms safely [link to one of the gadzillon stories about sexual assault in a changing room]

Of course, Emily is not going to go to prison, but there are girls out there without her advantages. I want them to be safe from rape by men pretending to ID as female [photo of Isla Byron, before and after]

Nah.

”You have seriously crossed the line there bruv, making out that there is something wrong with me standing up for my rights “

“Who the hell do you think you are talking to me like that?”