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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julia Hartley Brewer and Kellie Jay

134 replies

Thedarkestblue · 27/03/2023 19:50

Just wanted to highlight this interview, with KJK talking about New Zealand, for anyone who wants to see it.

Women’s Rights Advocate Kellie-Jay Keen “Feared For Life” After Attack by Trans Activists

Women’s rights advocate Kellie-Jay Keen says she “feared for her life” after being attacked by trans activists during protests in New Zealand.The campaigner ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su8XLdc26uo

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/03/2023 19:30

raspberrywine · 28/03/2023 19:22

I will overlook the other stuff as I’m relieved someone is talking about this. If we relied on the left we wouldn’t be heard at all and that is so much worse. Frightening really

It would be like Australia, NZ and Canada.

Indeed - and look what happens to women in NZ if they dare to raise concerns about child safeguarding and women's rights. Threatened and punched. And there's no evidence that this won't happen to women here - just look at what happened outside the Lesbian Project at the weekend. Carnage (led by a male born criminal who's served 30 years for attempted murder & kidnapping yet is feted by Labour politicians and useful idiots.

ilovemyspace · 28/03/2023 23:01

MalagaNights · Yesterday 20:54
I love JHB too.

Her and KJK are the kind of women I admire.

Not fixated on any in group ideology, prepared to be ostracised by anyone who thinks they should conform to group think, and prepared to be disliked and criticised.

They are not part of clubs, won't go along with organisations rules. They just say what they want.

Women like that are villified. Not putting the group first is not tolerated in women.
You have to have ovaries of steel to be a lone voice, disagreeable woman like them

You have to have ovaries of steel to be a lone voice, disagreeable woman like them
^^
What does it take for them NOT to be considered a ' lone voice, disagreeable woman '? It takes every one of us to say what we think and then they will not be a 'lone voice'!!

DemiColon · 29/03/2023 10:23

SpidersAreShitheads · 28/03/2023 18:38

I love KJK - even though I don't agree with her on everything! The irony, I know 😅 But she's marvellous, an absolute warrior woman who's incredibly brave. I feel so grateful to her for being willing to do everything that she is.

Of course, yes, it's imperative that she has a voice and speaks up about the violence in NZ. Maybe I'm just ignorant of the landscape in NZ but I was really shocked by the scale of the protest against her. Sadly, not by the violence because women are just fair game, aren't they?! 😕 It needs to be discussed publicly, and people need to realise this just isn't OK!

Also, in my defence, I didn't actually say that JHB shouldn't interview her. I did listen to the interview and I know that JHB really does get the GC perspective entirely. I also said earlier that I don't believe in silencing or deplatforming, unless it's for safety reasons.

I think the point I'm making really is that I vehemently wish that there were some prominent left wing journalists and politicians who would come out in strong support of GC views. And I wish the interview would have been done by one of those.

It's as I said in my post above, the problem is that those who aren't really engaged won't delve into it to find out what's really going on. When it's a right wing person who maybe they don't agree with on other subjects, people will just dismiss it and won't listen. It will be ignored as some right wing rant that's targeting minorities yet again....

Lots of people - especially men - still don't appreciate how hard women have to fight for equality every day, and how differently we're still being treated. So when it's just right wing voices championing this cause, it's easy for the casual listener/reader to switch off. Whereas, if it was someone who maybe aligned with the rest of their views, someone they usually liked or respected, there's a greater chance of them actually paying attention to what's going on.

I don't know how well I'm explaining my point of view 🤦🏻‍♀️

For example, on twitter if I see a tweet from JK Rowling, I'll automatically go and see what she's got to say. That's because I know our views align on many subjects and she's someone who I greatly respect.

But let's say a tweet from Owen Jones somehow makes its way onto my newsfeed, if it's not relating to sex/gender I'm unlikely to pay it any attention because I think he's a giant bellend and he's always banging on about stuff that I don't agree with. Candace Owens would be another one - she could post something relating to US politics that I'm not aware of. I'm unlikely to pay attention to her because I don't like her either. And that means I won't learn about whatever the issue is, because my dislike for her means I scroll past.

Of course, not everyone is quite so polarising! There are plenty of people I have mixed views on, but those that I really do dislike, I'm unlikely to waste my time on. And that's what I mean about JHB - there are plenty of people who have an issue with her, so they'll scroll past if she pops up with this interview on their newsfeed.

I'll get back to you on who would be the ideal interviewer - need to think about that 😅 There is a bit of me that wonders whether a man interviewing her would mean it gets taken more seriously. Absolute bullshit that it's still like this, but so frequently we are still dismissed as hysterical women. When men talk, people take it more seriously which is why it's important to get blokes speaking up for women's rights too - and that includes publicising and condemning the violence against KJK.

Spider, I do understand where you are coming from here. But I think that maybe you need to become more hard-hearted in some ways.

I think you have an overly rosy view of the left and an overly negative view of the right, for one thing. THe history of the left is not so "nice" as you seem to think, it has historically had some huge blindspots, a tendency to see people as a mass rather than as individual persons, a tendency to think ends justify means, to authoritarianism. What we are seeing now with gender ideology and certain things like anti-racism (the only way to fix past discrimination is current discrimination) is not at all alien to the left. And the idea that the right is somehow dominantly the home of intolerance is also I think a very surface view.

The left really likes to promote this idea, and this is the thing - if you scroll past people like Candace Owens, that's the kind of thing you will miss.

We all only have so much time - I don't read Owen Jones now because even where he's right, he never seems to say anything worthwhile. Candace Owens I find quite annoying, and isn't my go-to person on the right for race issues, but she has done some interesting and worthwhile things, for example on what happened to the funds raised by BLM (a lot weirdly went to support gender ideology, which might be of interest to some here.)

But these people who just dismiss what someone like Jordan Peterson says, or a particular publication says, because of it's political alignment - frankly they have far bigger problems than just believing in gender ideology. Their attitude is fundamentally anti-intellectual and they have painted themselves into a corner. These people have never actually engaged with someone like JP, they read a shitty Guardian article and that tells them what to think.

And don't kid yourself this is just about gender, it is happening on all kinds of issues, all the id politics stuff, but it was a huge problem during covid as well, with left of center writers and publications refusing to print dissenting opinions on political decisions.

What you need to ask is why so many on the left today seem completely vulnerable to this kind of manipulation and anti-intellectualism. Whatever the answer is, avoiding people from the right isn't going to fix it.

MalagaNights · 29/03/2023 11:53

ilovemyspace · 28/03/2023 23:01

MalagaNights · Yesterday 20:54
I love JHB too.

Her and KJK are the kind of women I admire.

Not fixated on any in group ideology, prepared to be ostracised by anyone who thinks they should conform to group think, and prepared to be disliked and criticised.

They are not part of clubs, won't go along with organisations rules. They just say what they want.

Women like that are villified. Not putting the group first is not tolerated in women.
You have to have ovaries of steel to be a lone voice, disagreeable woman like them

You have to have ovaries of steel to be a lone voice, disagreeable woman like them
^^
What does it take for them NOT to be considered a ' lone voice, disagreeable woman '? It takes every one of us to say what we think and then they will not be a 'lone voice'!!

I agree.
And I'm doing my bit.
I am a disagreeable woman myself who often feels like a lone voice so they are inspire me to embrace it.

Bovril2000 · 29/03/2023 14:20

I absolutely love JHB. And KJK. And JKR for that matter!

raspberrywine · 29/03/2023 14:27

Great post @DemiColon

hamstersarse · 29/03/2023 14:33

Yes, great post @DemiColon

Avoiding someone just because they are 'right wing' is the epitome of fragility.

Fragile ego
Fragile arguments

The left are currently playing on this fragility and have got to the point where the 'tyranny of the weak' is coming into play. Such is the weakness and fragility of many people involved in these identity politics, they become tyrants to enforce their views by playing the victim and concentrating on their and others 'hurt feelings'

Cancel culture, controlling of language, intolerance to opposing views - all of these are a tyranny of the weak

MarshaBradyo · 29/03/2023 14:38

hamstersarse · 29/03/2023 14:33

Yes, great post @DemiColon

Avoiding someone just because they are 'right wing' is the epitome of fragility.

Fragile ego
Fragile arguments

The left are currently playing on this fragility and have got to the point where the 'tyranny of the weak' is coming into play. Such is the weakness and fragility of many people involved in these identity politics, they become tyrants to enforce their views by playing the victim and concentrating on their and others 'hurt feelings'

Cancel culture, controlling of language, intolerance to opposing views - all of these are a tyranny of the weak

And throw in actual violence and silencing and we’re in a dystopian situation.

The left aren’t fluffy and nice anymore they are ready to roll over women, literally, to get what men want.

Clymene · 29/03/2023 14:40

I really enjoyed listening to KJK being interviewed on Brendan O'Neill's podcast. Worth a listen.

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