Julia Hartley Brewer and Kellie Jay

[Thedarkestblue]

Just wanted to highlight this interview, with KJK talking about New Zealand, for anyone who wants to see it.

I don’t watch this kind of TV at all so actually am unaware of JHB

I see some posts attempting to discredit the points made

Which specific points in that interview alone do you disagree with?

And if the left are ready to wash over violence and ignore women’s voices who will let us speak?

I think this is absolutely the issue in a nutshell.

My politics fall naturally centre left but there are very, very few people who share my political views who are willing to come out and stand up for women.

I agree with the Tories on very little, and Boris Johnson on even less. And yet I found myself in the difficult position of acknowledging that he spoke a lot of common sense when he was talking about biological sex and gender identity. The Conservatives are the only party who are largely standing up for women - and I have no disillusions here, I realise it's also to win votes.

I align with the Tories on pretty much nothing else - but women's rights are a single vote issue for me right now. But I also think more of the Conservatives would be catastrophic for our country. So what do I do when the time comes to vote? It's a dilemma lots of left-leaning women are finding themselves in.

And it's the case for right-wing political commentators/journalists too. I have JHB blocked on Twitter as I don't want to see her unpleasant vitriol. But there are other similar right-wingers ie/Candace Owens et al. I don't want to be amplifying their voice, and yet they're the only ones who are supporting women.

It's just bloody frustrating that there's no one high profile on the left who's prepared to support us, other than Rosie Duffield but she's not what I would describe as a high profile figure.

KJK is amazing. She survived a terrifying experience when her life was in real danger, flew home 40 hours door to door and instead of collapsing weeping into the arms of her family like most of us would she slapped in the makeup and got straight out there doing interviews when she must barely have had time for a cup of coffee.

I don't know how she does it but she truly is a legend.

(Which happens to be my ear worm today, courtesy of Julia Long!).

I don't get the whole "I feel uncomfortable sharing the same views".

How old are people? 5? You can agree with people on some topics without being in agreement with anything else they say. You may not be even coming from the same angle, same place. You're talking like a gender ideologist if your views are so narrow.

Why does sharing the same views diminish and take away from the interview?

The extrapolation around JHB is really amusing

I listen to her show most mornings and have done for a few years.

These days, I don't really care what leaning someone is, I just care that they actually have the courage to say whatever they think. Not what they think they should think, but what they actually think.

If women can’t speak about an issue that affects them without fear of violence in retaliation

And they can’t even speak about the violence when it happens because one side prefers to ignore them

Then we really are fucked. And JHB is the least of our problems

Is part of the issue that if someone on the "far right" seems to have insight on one issue, maybe people need to consider that their other views might be less bad than they imagined?

Often it is people who don't care too much about being unpleasant that will stick their neck out over controversial issues. So I am not surprised that you might also hear a somewhat unpleasant comment like the one about GT. She doesn't care about playing nice or sounding like a dick and just says what she thinks, which is that GT is kind of pathetic. (Not saying I agree, but I think that is what her point is.)

I've seen that pattern with a lot of people and although they can be grating individuals they do have an important social role I think.

JHB is not far right!!

Will people please stop monstering right wing women? JHB is a mainstead centrist/right of centre journalist. Her general philosophy I would describe as old fashioned liberalism, I.e. free speech, personal responsibility, tolerance etc. But like most of us, she has a range of views that cover a political spectrum.

If you can't cope with that or it makes you "deeply uncomfortable" maybe you need to ask yourself what's behind your demands for ideological purity. Because it's not healthy, at all.

I don't think she's right or left in any tribalistic way. I think she just believes what she believes and is not afraid to say what those beliefs are. She won't conform, and that is what some people dislike about her.

It would be interesting to know - ther's been no sight or sound for a number of years, as far as I'm aware. Maybe they have detransitioned?

Question for the critics -

As a GC woman am I supposed to make sure every person who says something I agree with, is a person whose opinions and thoughts are all pure? And actually is there a laminate checklist we can use to do this?

Because, and I'm maybe being thick here, it seems I could be waiting for hell to freeze over before such a person comes along.

Surely agreeing with an opinion isn't the same thing as wanting that person and all they hold dear as my new BFF?

I'm glad that KJK has come out fighting after the horrible incident in New Zealand. Strength to your elbow, Posie!

I love women like this too! I listened to KJK on Brandon O’Neill today and realised I share her perspective on other views too, such as the demonization of Leave voters ( despite me voting Remain this truly disgusted me), and her view that Gender ideology is most affecting lower income women. I think she comes from a working class family like me, so I wonder if this has shaped our world view.

Re the quote on GT, what I find particularly abhorrent is that she's using autism as a slur. I find that unforgivable, if I'm honest. I don't care that she doesn't like GT but you don't use autism as a means of trying to criticise someone.

I'm even particularly a fan of GT, and I don't agree with a number of things she's said or done, but to use someone's autism as a means of trying to discredit them is pretty bloody awful.

Also backing Andrew Tate over GT is unbelievable. An alleged multiple rapist and human trafficker....let alone the rampant misogyny...? But that backs up my perception of JHB, in all honesty.

I think you're right in that it's important to have a range of views in society, even if you don't like them all. I just find many - not all - of her views particularly unpleasant, and full of vitriol. I wouldn't deplatform her because I only support that for quite extreme individuals who present the possibility of incitement etc.

She doesn't believe in climate change, thinks Enoch Powell's speech wasn't racist, is pro-Rwanda for immigration, was pro-Brexit - but also was vocal in being happy to "throw Northern Ireland under a bus" to achieve Brexit. I could go on. It's not the fact that our views are different, it's the fact that I think a lot of her beliefs come from a selfish, xenophobic place of elitist hierarchy.

She's pretty much a female Nigel Farage.

I find it difficult to be on the same side as her because so much else of what she believes or says, I find really problematic. Yet here we are.

I think this is a really interesting point, and of course you're right, at least in part.

I absolutely loathe JGB, and I'm not comfortable with being on the same side of her. It's a bit like KJK when Nazis turn up to support her at the rallies, it doesn't reflect well even though KJK clearly doesn't share their opinions on other things!

**Point of note, I'm NOT calling JHB a Nazi - just pointing out how you can be tarnished by association.

No one is ever going to agree with everything another person thinks and believes. And of course it's not necessary.

But let's say, for example, the delightful Tommy Robinson from the EDL was loudly supporting you. How would that make you feel? Just thankful for the support or slightly uncomfortable that quite an odious individual shared your views and was campaigning for your cause? For me, it's the latter.

And that's the question - at what point are you just happy that someone is supporting the cause, and at what point do you feel uncomfortable sharing views?

Obviously you can't change what someone else thinks, and none of us are the gatekeepers of GC views. I just wish there were more left-leaning individuals who were willing to speak up because at the moment, it's just being dismissed as another branch of intolerance which let's face it, the right are more commonly known for.

I think the left claims the right are noted for intolerance.

Lots of minorities on the right say that the worst treatment they ever get is from people on the left who say things that are pretty shocking.

I listen the JHB when driving in the morning she had Sharron Davies on today - excellent program about this repugnant, evil nonsense

The fact that we're on the same "side" when it comes to gender ideology makes me deeply uncomfortable. I don't agree with her on other issues, and I don't want to be tarred with the same brush as her.

Oh, dear. JHB will just have to get on with her dreary, drab existence knowing that you "don't want to be tarred with the same brush as her".

JHB is definitely not 'far right' FGS.

A few of her views are far right, but not the majority. In fairness I didn't mean to describe her overall as far right because that's not accurate - so I apologise for that. I should have read my post back before entering - I meant to type right wing.

She's generally very comfortably to the right, but no, in general, not far right. That's my mistake.

I find it difficult to be on the same side as her because so much else of what she believes or says, I find really problematic. Yet here we are.

I find this hard to understand. Jordan Peterson - I don't agree many things with him but I agree on some. Candace Owen - same thing. Billy fucking Bragg - I'm sure there are some things we might agree on if I could be bothered to find out. I don't agree with everyone on this board. I don't agree with everything Maya or Helen Joyce say.

Especially in this issue you're going to rub up against all sorts of people who agree with you. With Muslims, Christians and most other religious groups, the centrist, the right, the far right, maybe even far left and the free speech advocates. Bloody hell, most of the world in all its messiness. Why? Because biology matters and none of us like being manipulated, gaslit and lied to. For all sorts of different reasons.

You really need to get used to it.

maybe some on the far left

Oh. What a helpful response.....not 🙄

I couldn't give a shiny shit what JHB thinks of me. It's more about others - who I might care about - thinking that the rest of my views align with JHB's.

I'm sorry that this rather obvious meaning went over your head.

Do you think KJK should have a voice here generally and speak specifically about the violence in NZ

And if so who would you like to interview her?

If only JHB has why is that, why is that, where is the cross section of media on this in your view

I appreciate that it's just something I'm going to have to suck up.

The point I was making is that where do you draw the line in being grateful for the support. To make my point in a fairly ridiculous way - what if Hitler were alive today and championing GC views? Would we say "don't worry about the rest of his views because no one has to agree on everything?" Would you feel great about the fact that you agree on this issue but nothing else?

Obviously I'm exaggerating for effect, but that's the point I'm trying to make.

I do find some of JHB's views really offensive. I'm an autistic woman and her using autism as a slur is disgusting. As well as a number of her other views.

I'm not saying I have to agree with everyone about everything because that really would be ridiculous. But generally I don't share JHB's viewpoint on much else (if anything). And most of the people championing GC views are right wing and I'm not - so yet again, I'm aligning myself with people that have other views which are the polar opposite to mine.

I think it would feel less uncomfortable if there was a broader spectrum of people who were all saying biology matters (because of course it bloody does!) But when it's primarily coming from groups that would normally be considered as quite intolerant, it's quite hard to swallow.

And I think it matters because although the left has shown themselves to be equally as intolerant now, historically it's been the rightwing of politics that was known for intolerance and excluding minorities. So when there's primarily right wing people speaking out, GC becomes easier to view as an intolerant, right wing movement. I'm not referencing those who are engaged in the debate, but the rest of the general public who maybe only have a passing interest. Those are the people we need to reach and if they are only hearing right wing voices, they will dismiss GC views.