Julia Hartley Brewer and Kellie Jay

[Thedarkestblue]

Just wanted to highlight this interview, with KJK talking about New Zealand, for anyone who wants to see it.

Just to add I ask because I think we are in a very precarious position

Women only want to speak, that’s it, about single sex spaces

They get punched and assaulted and are silenced

If we can’t even get coverage in the media because the left deign it not worthy we really are stuffed

No voice, hit and punched and no one hears us

I don’t consider myself on the “same side” as anyone, I just happen to agree with a specific point or view they hold, I don’t really find that uncomfortable. Someone having a point is someone having a point, I’m not signalling approval of them.

This is just a different attempt to discredit and shut women up. We're all meant to ensure that everyone who believes women don't have a penis or that children should not be encouraged into drugs and surgery to fix their growing bodies all comply with all the pre approved rules.
If after this weekend's examples of extreme threats / violence against women along with the evidence of the thousands of children sacrificing their mental and physical health in favour of these toxic beliefs, your talking points are about JHB's views that you don't agree with, you're part of the problem.

I love KJK - even though I don't agree with her on everything! The irony, I know 😅 But she's marvellous, an absolute warrior woman who's incredibly brave. I feel so grateful to her for being willing to do everything that she is.

Of course, yes, it's imperative that she has a voice and speaks up about the violence in NZ. Maybe I'm just ignorant of the landscape in NZ but I was really shocked by the scale of the protest against her. Sadly, not by the violence because women are just fair game, aren't they?! 😕 It needs to be discussed publicly, and people need to realise this just isn't OK!

Also, in my defence, I didn't actually say that JHB shouldn't interview her. I did listen to the interview and I know that JHB really does get the GC perspective entirely. I also said earlier that I don't believe in silencing or deplatforming, unless it's for safety reasons.

I think the point I'm making really is that I vehemently wish that there were some prominent left wing journalists and politicians who would come out in strong support of GC views. And I wish the interview would have been done by one of those.

It's as I said in my post above, the problem is that those who aren't really engaged won't delve into it to find out what's really going on. When it's a right wing person who maybe they don't agree with on other subjects, people will just dismiss it and won't listen. It will be ignored as some right wing rant that's targeting minorities yet again....

Lots of people - especially men - still don't appreciate how hard women have to fight for equality every day, and how differently we're still being treated. So when it's just right wing voices championing this cause, it's easy for the casual listener/reader to switch off. Whereas, if it was someone who maybe aligned with the rest of their views, someone they usually liked or respected, there's a greater chance of them actually paying attention to what's going on.

I don't know how well I'm explaining my point of view 🤦🏻‍♀️

For example, on twitter if I see a tweet from JK Rowling, I'll automatically go and see what she's got to say. That's because I know our views align on many subjects and she's someone who I greatly respect.

But let's say a tweet from Owen Jones somehow makes its way onto my newsfeed, if it's not relating to sex/gender I'm unlikely to pay it any attention because I think he's a giant bellend and he's always banging on about stuff that I don't agree with. Candace Owens would be another one - she could post something relating to US politics that I'm not aware of. I'm unlikely to pay attention to her because I don't like her either. And that means I won't learn about whatever the issue is, because my dislike for her means I scroll past.

Of course, not everyone is quite so polarising! There are plenty of people I have mixed views on, but those that I really do dislike, I'm unlikely to waste my time on. And that's what I mean about JHB - there are plenty of people who have an issue with her, so they'll scroll past if she pops up with this interview on their newsfeed.

I'll get back to you on who would be the ideal interviewer - need to think about that 😅 There is a bit of me that wonders whether a man interviewing her would mean it gets taken more seriously. Absolute bullshit that it's still like this, but so frequently we are still dismissed as hysterical women. When men talk, people take it more seriously which is why it's important to get blokes speaking up for women's rights too - and that includes publicising and condemning the violence against KJK.

My feelings exactry. Well said.

I couldn't give a shiny shit what JHB thinks of me. It's more about others - who I might care about - thinking that the rest of my views align with JHB's

So all you really care about is how it might look to other people?

Apparently. And that's very sad.

I think the point I'm making really is that I vehemently wish that there were some prominent left wing journalists and politicians who would come out in strong support of GC views. And I wish the interview would have been done by one of those.

See, I agree with you on this. 😀

But where are these journalists and interviewers? None in sight that I know of. You have got the BBC who haven't even mentioned the horrible events in NZ. Complete radio silence unless they have today, since I didn't bother checking today. Why not? Because they are beholden to the trans lobby within their own corporation.

So until these interviewers, journalists and msm pull their heads out of their arses, we're left with centrist and the politically right media to platform KJK, Helen Joyce etc.

I suspect that what some people don't like about JHB is that she asks questions and she is quick to point out inconsistencies, untruths and misrepresentaions no matter what the discussion topic. She is good at holding all views accountable and that is what some people don't like.

People like for baddies to be baddies, even if they are being mispresented for effect; and they like the morally virtuous to remain morally virtuous, even when they are not. Certain shibboleths of feminism, of anti racism, Brexit/Remain or whatever, must not be questioned at all.

If you read my other posts you'll see that's not what I said at all.

However, I have casual friends who maybe don't know me as well as those who are close to me - yes, I'd care if they thought that I shared some of the views JHB does. That would matter to me.

Of course though, it's not the ONLY thing that matters. Several things can be true simultaneously....

The pathetic Left are largely silent on this bar some wonderful notable exceptions eg Rosie Duffield. This is not the fault of women who understand biology, this is the faulty of the cowardly, craven, misogynist Left who have completely discarded women's rights.
The Left has abandoned women and now we are bullied for being 'far right' because we know that women don't have cocks? Fuck that.

I don't know why you've got it in for me, or why you're having a go.

There are several posters on this thread who don't like JHB. I am happy that KJK is being heard, but I was initially replying to previous posters who said they didn't know why JHB might be contentious.

I've explained above why I think it's important to hear a range of voices from across the political spectrum. And yes, that does include right wing voices - but I'd prefer that it wasn't exclusively right wing, for the reasons I've explained.

I'm not going to apologise for disliking a woman who thinks it's fine to use autism as a slur. If you think that's OK, then fine.

I appreciate your post Spider as it’s a thought out answer

I guess my issue is that we don’t have this:

I think the point I'm making really is that I vehemently wish that there were some prominent left wing journalists and politicians who would come out in strong support of GC views. And I wish the interview would have been done by one of those.

Why don’t we have it? Is the left too happy to wash over violence against women in favour of gender ideology

If so we’re in trouble, but even more so if we don’t get any media at all. I liked that JHB interview a lot, I don’t do Twitter or news or talk TV really so haven’t got a view on many personalities people know.

I will overlook the other stuff as I’m relieved someone is talking about this. If we relied on the left we wouldn’t be heard at all and that is so much worse. Frightening really

I used to be deeply deeply left wing. As I've said numerous times, I've never voted anything but labour and I've been voting for 40 years.

I've always been slightly uncomfortable with the fact that a lot of left wing men are deeply misogynist but I've overlooked it for the 'greater good'.

But trans rights has brought that all into sharp focus and I can no longer overlook it.

This isn't a right Vs left issue. This is a women Vs men issue. And it's when women put other things before women's rights - typically liberal and left politics - they attack women for being TERFs.

Actually some of them don't even attack women for being TERFs. Some women think that they can change things from within, despite years and years of evidence that U.K. labour has never, and never will, prioritise women's rights over men's wants. I think these women are suffering from a kind of Stockholm syndrome.

The enemy is men. Always. All ways. They are the ones who are trying to stop us talking, remove our rights to single sex spaces and single sex sports. Any women who go along with them have been gaslit. Any women who believe they can change them are trying to appeal to their aggressor.

We have been trying to appeal to them for years and they've not just ignored us, they've doubled down.

See this letter to The Guardian from Lachlan Stuart. Stuart wrote the Labour Party's 2019 election manifesto. As you can see in his letter, women and girls have been 'required to' make accommodations for transwomen.

Have we? Who asked us? No one

I agree that the left has completely abandoned women, apart from a few very isolated exceptions such as Rosie.

And that leaves lots of women like myself who have left-leaning politics utterly lost.

A Lib Dem canvasser knocked at my door last week and I told him why I would never vote for the Lib Dems. He had "never heard" of the GC/trans issue and was utterly clueless. I told him explicitly what the issues were and I told him to take it back to his HQ and tell them that's why they're losing voters. Doubt he will.

You know when someone is able to point out mistruths and misrepresentations in someone's position, it doesn't necessarily mean that are in disagreement with it? Whenever you play deveil's advdocate for the sake of debate and furthering the argument people make assumptions about what you personally think. So, if I correct someone's factual error when they talk about Enoch Powell, it must mean I am a supporter of Enoch Powell and so on.

Great post.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused. Of course I understand devil's advocate and it's something that I think is really helpful in discourse.

I'm just a bit confused about what you're saying here. Apologies - not being disingenuous, just lost! I don't think I've misrepresented anything on here?

Thank you @MarshaBradyo - really appreciated.

I think you've just captured the problem in a nutshell though haven't you? We don't have anyone on the left who's willing to speak out for us. We're simply not their priority and they've contributed to the mass perception that trans individuals suffer the greatest oppression, the greatest exclusion and the greatest violence against them.... Women just aren't seen as a priority for the left.

And yes you're also right that it's better for any interviews and publicity than silence - because that's how we ended up here. I guess it's just wishful thinking that Keir Starmer et al would somehow suddenly find their backbone. Or that left wing journalists would suddenly stand up and starting campaigning for women's rights, and supporting GC views.

I do think Starmer is a decent guy but he's terrified of losing voters, and he thinks he's being kind and inclusive. I do believe though that under the political exterior, he absolutely knows what a woman is.

I think there's a long way to go before the left wing politicians start to question where we're at. Or to publicly say that gender self ID is harmful, and things need to change.

I do think Starmer is a decent guy but he's terrified of losing voters, and he thinks he's being kind and inclusive. I do believe though that under the political exterior, he absolutely knows what a woman is

He is a coward and a liar.

Thank you @twitterexile - that's very kind

Obviously you can't change what someone else thinks, and none of us are the gatekeepers of GC views. I just wish there were more left-leaning individuals who were willing to speak up because at the moment, it's just being dismissed as another branch of intolerance which let's face it, the right are more commonly known for.

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Spiders some fair points also. For me the more people in general who talk about an issue I'm passionate about, the better. Sometimes noteriety may help get things on peoples radar.

Someone like KJK can't stop her events because unsavoury types may turn up. Instead we can use our critical thinking and know to realise that it was hijacked pure and simple.

So for me right now the safeguarding of women and children is more important than who the poster boy:girl is.

For the record I'm more often a fan of KJK than I'm not. In terms of JHB I don't know much about her but she will bring issues to the masses and that's what we need.

Who knows. Maybe the perfect person will reveal themselves soon.

I’m not sure the left can budge on this. Has any party to the left anywhere reversed and removed gender ideology?

I just can’t think why they’d leave it behind, they might try to hide it as currently is the path Labour is taking to avoid losing votes or a leadership even

But actually saying ok we’ll drop it I can’t see it. I thought losing another election might do it but only maybe

But when it's primarily coming from groups that would normally be considered as quite intolerant, it's quite hard to swallow.

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And you know what? TRAs bloody love this and will forever use it as ammunition. This then creates a cycle where people are. - very understandably - frightened to speak up too.

Thankfully a minority of people (mostly women) are taking a huge risk by doing it anyway.

And for them, who ever they are, I'm grateful their voice is in the mix because there is way too much at stake

I will overlook the other stuff as I’m relieved someone is talking about this. If we relied on the left we wouldn’t be heard at all and that is so much worse. Frightening really

It would be like Australia, NZ and Canada.