Sky News: Starmer will lose the election on day 1 unless he shifts his trans rights position

[SirSamVimesCityWatch]

Apologies if there's already a thread. This appeared last night on the Sky News.

It seems that some grown ups people in the Labour party are finally paying attention.

https://news.sky.com/story/keir-starmer-will-lose-election-campaign-on-day-one-over-his-trans-rights-position-labour-strategists-warn-12841099

[ZuttZeVootEeeVo]

I think many people place an over emphasis on policy when it comes to voting intention.

I agree.

I dont think wanting to stop TRA being a talking point is going to work. Labour is gambling thats theres not going to be another scandal near the election when this could blow up again.

Also, if they intend to have policies aimed at women, arent they going to open themselves up to questions anyway?

They really need to stop hiding from this. All parties need to acknowledge that there is a conflict, understand where that conflict is, and what they are going to do about it. But labour most of all because they are coming from a much weaker position.

Blimey, if they think once in power the trans issue is going to go away they dont deserve their MPs salaries, let alone be government.

[NettleTea]

and the trouble is, that although there ARE far more 'pressing' matters, re the state of the bloody country - if you cant trust them to know what a woman is, what the hell can you trust them with

[ZuttZeVootEeeVo]

There are more issues to deal with, but by comparison this is easier to deal with - is it the GRA or EqA or both that is at fault. Identify the problems, and the solutions are easy to find.

Unless Labour genuinely think that the general public will one day believe that someone can change sex, or women and girls dont need space away from men only those who Identify as men?

[BorisisaLune]

My guess is that Starmer may lose a few % points over this issue, but overall the bigger problems facing the country, coupled with the mess that is the Tory party, will swing it for him. Polls have had Labour consistently in the high 40s low 50s for months now. It's just a question of how big their majority is going to be

Maybe but the polls will narrow as we approach the next election and the only one that matters is on the day of the next GE.

I think Labour will lose if they don't very quickly change tack.

After all, if you struggle with "what is a woman?" why should you be trusted with the economy or the NHS?

The fact that the tories have been terrible on this and many other issues regarding womens rights will be swept away.

[OhVicIveFallen]

@Pixiedust1234

Unfortunately my family think Isla has been unfairly treated. They also think Isla is waiting for surgery. They think Isla will eventually look more womanlike and anyone who says otherwise is a nasty piece of work. Isla would never rape again because Isla is a real woman now.

My DH thinks it was the 8yr calling trouble at the spa by looking. It was her fault.

DD1 thinks TWAW. She was taught this at school and has A level biology so stupid mum is out of date with current science and knows nothing. Been told that to my face. Also called me terf (I was so proud to be called that, my reaction did confuse her 😂).

DD2 gets tearful and says what about her friends who are transmen. People like me make their life soooo much harder, please be nice mummy. (One friend is autistic, another has an abusive father, third is/would have been a lesbian in old money, honestly).

All three think JKR is a nasty shitstirrer and deserves the online hate. I cant convince them because I'm just a stupid out of date woman, who isn't very bright (based purely on me being middle aged, a woman, and a mother). All three hate the Conservatives as much as they hate terfs.

All three are voters.

I'm so sorry, your family sound batshit. Hope fully your children will grow up and realise how damaging this ideology is. Your husband though? I'd probably get rid tbh. Easier said than done I know!

[gamerchick]

I wish they would stop framing it as trans rights. Trans people have the same rights as the rest of us. Self id is an attack on women's rights. It should be said as such.

[Helleofabore]

https://twitter.com/edcmpbl/status/1638967017607688207?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

This woman is pretty clear that she won’t vote for someone who cannot define who a woman is.

[ZuttZeVootEeeVo]

The presumably Labour supporters in the comments are saying shes either thick or has her priorities wrong.

Same attitute they had to the brexit voters.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Yes, I posted it upthread. The response from the male interviewer, and the mostly men in the comments, is very revealing of how much respect they have for women.

[ZuttZeVootEeeVo]

Same attitude.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

It's funny that he's pearl clutching about the "culture war" while tweeting "caveat, trans women are women" as the second tweet.

[SirSamVimesCityWatch]

Insulting women doesn't make us vote the way they want us to.

[MissPollysFitDolly]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Yes, I posted it upthread. The response from the male interviewer, and the mostly men in the comments, is very revealing of how much respect they have for women.

But look at the thread that followed his TWAW comment - https://twitter.com/edcmpbl/status/1638969482717589519 - no support at all.

[LittleLegsKeepGoing]

It doesn't matter if Starmer changes his stance now for me. My MP is Labour and is a proud TWAW ally. She votes according to her beliefs and has disobeyed the party whip before now so I have zero faith that she will work in favour of women even if ordered to.

Sadly we live in a Cons/Lab swing seat so that causes other issues for me.

[SquidwardBound]

There does need to be someone to vote for though. It’s like labour are satisfied to attempt to be elected on the basis of people just wanting not-the-Tories.

There’s no party offering an inspiring vision and a leader you actually believe could pull anything off.

[NotHavingIt]

When Starmer sees how ridiculed Humza is over the issue of Gender self ID, and how little public support he has, he will have to address the issue himself pretty sharpish and declare his own hand - certainly if he wants to capitalise on the possible Scottish votes he requires to win an election.

[NotHavingIt]

@OhVicIveFallen

I'm so sorry, your family sound batshit. Hope fully your children will grow up and realise how damaging this ideology is. Your husband though? I'd probably get rid tbh. Easier said than done I know!

Yes, it sounds pretty intolerable.

[Hepwo]

@GoChasingWaterfalls

I appreciate that this is a massive issue on Mumsnet but I really think we're in a bubble on this one.

Most voters won't have this issue in their top ten.

A YouGov surgery from last year showed that 24% of people paid it no attention at all and 42 % paid little attention:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

What's more, other polls consistently have voters primarily focused on other issues and it will be these that win or lose the election:

"In the latest period, we asked adults what they feel are important issues facing the UK today. The most commonly reported issues were:

the cost of living (93%)

the NHS (84%)

the economy (74%)

climate change and the environment (61%)"

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/publicopinionsandsocialtrendsgreatbritain/22februaryto5march2023#important-issues-facing-the-uk

My guess is that Starmer may lose a few % points over this issue, but overall the bigger problems facing the country, coupled with the mess that is the Tory party, will swing it for him. Polls have had Labour consistently in the high 40s low 50s for months now. It's just a question of how big their majority is going to be.

This is common this far out from a general election. It changes rapidly in the weeks and days before hand.

Starmer's hypocritical stance on his own special pension deal will push any wavering conservative voters back firmly into their traditional voting pattern. Unless he's going to revoke that personal cash cow. He's been absolutely silent on it so far despite his speed at promising he will revoke the pension cap reforms for everyone else who are trying to save enough to retire.

The gender pay gap is literally caused by there not being enough women in senior jobs and he wants any woman making it into a senior job to have a far worse pension saving environment as a reward for the extraordinary hard work they have to do.

There's so much inequality about and he's taken a very favorable special instrument as a special deal. He doesn't want senior female workers to have access to the same a good thing which allows them to catch up.

As a recent senior manager and single parent who hasn't been able to save before now because of a mortgage and a family I've supported alone, I am grateful for the conservative government allowing me to sacrifice the majority of my pay into a tax deferral scheme in my 60s. I have to live now on a low salary after pension contributions to catch up, and what this new cap allows me to do is save a big enough lump sum to withdraw for the rest of my life. Taxable when I withdraw it.

He's dead keen to stop me doing that and make sure I can't save enough to retire on.

His lefty credentials are shallow.

[Abhannmor]

@teawamutu

This is brilliant. I don't know who in Labour is briefing behind the scenes, but they're playing a blinder. Starmer is going to have to make a choice between appearing heartless (to the blue-haired Momentumites) or mindless (to the electorate).

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby

Stop with this drivel about Momentum already.

This is not left / right. Blairites like Cooper , Creasey and Kinnock are TWAW. As are many Tories , Liberals Greens and Plaid Cymru.

[inkjet]

I think things have shifted so much. A woman on the street (not on a SFW rally or any kind of women’s event) just coming out and saying Keir Starmer can’t say what a woman is and unapologetically saying that makes me not want to vote for him. Props to her.

[ArabellaScott]

Pixiedust1234 that sounds really hard. Particularly from your DH.

[ArabellaScott]

As for 'what is a woman' - this is the question in which politicians demonstrate if they are the naked emperor, or someone who is able to say 'the emperor is naked'.

[PorcelinaV]

@Abhannmor

Stop with this drivel about Momentum already.

This is not left / right. Blairites like Cooper , Creasey and Kinnock are TWAW. As are many Tories , Liberals Greens and Plaid Cymru.

It's partly left vs right. The agenda is being created by progressives even if some Tories go along with it. And which media is willing to give a platform to opponents? Media like Fox News.

This is about the American population but shows the difference between Democrats and Republicans on the sports issue:

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

[MarshaBradyo]

@PorcelinaV

It's partly left vs right. The agenda is being created by progressives even if some Tories go along with it. And which media is willing to give a platform to opponents? Media like Fox News.

This is about the American population but shows the difference between Democrats and Republicans on the sports issue:

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

Generally gender ideology does sit with the left. Worldwide I’m western democracies anyway.

Looking at various parties and beliefs

[Abhannmor]

@PorcelinaV

It's partly left vs right. The agenda is being created by progressives even if some Tories go along with it. And which media is willing to give a platform to opponents? Media like Fox News.

This is about the American population but shows the difference between Democrats and Republicans on the sports issue:

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

Another clunky read across from North American culture which some European parties, bereft of their own ideology, have tried to map onto their local politics.

This is what happens when you chuck your founding principles in the bin as Labour has done. People see through it. If they were a party of the left this bollox would be irrelevant to them.