Page 9 | Thoughts on Calvin Robinson?

meatbasedbreakfast · 2023-03-15T17:01:17+00:00

Long time lurker, stepping out the darkness to ask this. Was asked today by a friend who knows I'm GC what my thoughts are on Calvin Robinson. Apparently he's becoming a face of GC views?! I was shocked. He is anti abortion (in all cases), doesn't think same sex marriage should be legal, and isn't a feminist in any sense of the word. I'm genuinely concerned that our movement is being picked up by people like him, who couldn't care less about women. When he says biological sex is real, he couldn't give a damn about how that leads to discrimination/violence. It made my blood boil and I want to know what other people think.

twitterexile · 16/03/2023 19:42

beastlyslumber · 16/03/2023 11:26

He trained at Cambridge didn't he? Or was it Oxford? Hardly some crackpot.

Why is it so hard to accept that a black man might be religious and conservative and not make him out to be a grifter or a crank? I just can't see how it isn't racism, unless I suppose you just can't accept anyone who differs from you in any way.

I don't share CR's worldview but he seems like the kind of person who'd be happy to have a conversation about his ideas and respect you even if you didn't agree.

It really makes the left look massively intolerant when they can't articulate any argument about their ideas and instantly resort to ad hominem. It's intolerance and bigotry. At least CR is willing to talk about ideas and beliefs and doesn't just slur his opponents. For that reason, he will always have more reach and influence than those who simply call names and shout abuse.

Completely agree.

twitterexile · 16/03/2023 19:54

ancientgran · 16/03/2023 17:46

I looked at something on GBNews the other night, it was called Free Speech Nation and the bit I saw was all about criticising Gary Lineker because of what he said about the govt. I thought it was hilarious and wondered if they knew what the programme was about.

I don't know if it is always so funny but I thought it might be tuning in if I needed a laugh sometime.

Show quote history

Free Speech Nation is actually really good and has delved deep in to the attack on women's rights, particularly from the TRAs. I really rate Andrew Doyle, great interviewer and he has had some great guests on.

TheBiologyStupid · 16/03/2023 20:06

beastlyslumber · 16/03/2023 17:52

Free Speech Nation is Andrew Doyle's show and he is brilliant. He wrote a book about free speech which sets out all the issues very clearly and is well worth a read.

Andrew Doyle's The New Puritans: How the Religion of Social Justice Captured the Western World is also good. And his alter ego Titania McGrath is a work of genius.

twitterexile · 16/03/2023 20:09

Oh yes - Titania McGrath! Superb!

ancientgran · 17/03/2023 09:57

twitterexile · 16/03/2023 19:54

Free Speech Nation is actually really good and has delved deep in to the attack on women's rights, particularly from the TRAs. I really rate Andrew Doyle, great interviewer and he has had some great guests on.

Show quote history

I guess we all see things in different ways, I thought he was very smug and self satisfied. That is if he was the person I saw.

Merida46 · 17/03/2023 10:16

He tells her he's a woman too he has a ladybrain
He tells her his identity and hers; they are the same
He tells her not to talk about her body; it's not fair
Her body is her privilege his own, a cross to bear

He tells her that she cannot talk or otherwise allude
To what her female body does it's nasty to exclude
He says respect diversity except he would prefer
That she would not point out the ways that he's diverse from her

He tells her that biology does not impact her life
She should still bear his children but she must call him 'wife'
He says that words must all evolve she must learn to make do
And now that woman is his word he's taking 'female' too

He tells her that a woman is whatever he decides
He will not put it into words she must not ask, he chides
He tells her he is more oppressed than she has ever been
He says she must agree with him or else she's being mean

She searches for the words she needs to talk about herself
The billions who exist like her their lives, their rights, their health
Whatever word she chooses now he finds a way to spin it
The conversation carries on but she's no longer in it

Rachel Irischild

based on

He Tells Her by Wendy Cope

Melroses · 17/03/2023 11:28

That is more brilliant every time I read it 🌟

MalagaNights · 17/03/2023 11:40

Here's Calvin talking about free speech and drag shows for kids.

twitter.com/jessgill03/status/1636446842928898054?t=Y1HZtSyIS8DtzSCupWu8Fw&s=19

twitterexile · 17/03/2023 17:58

Perfectly reasonable.

QueenHippolyta · 17/03/2023 18:40

Agreed, he is perfectly reasonable. I've always been rather conservative,
but I'm also a Lesbian and pretty devoted pagan. I'm sure Rev Robinson and I would agree on many things and disagree on other things.
Can someone explain why the Left doesn't want you to find common ground with people...?

Insanely · 17/03/2023 18:50

Somewhat ironic that Calvin is getting stick for wearing a traditional cassock, dare I say it, some may even consider A DRESS???!!

Of course I don’t, plenty of traditional garb for men around the world is very similar.

I am mystified by anyone who thinks a person who understands the reality of biological sex and wants to protect children is supposed to look, sound or act a certain way.

Truly bizarre. Especially as it’s a view 99.99% of people in the world hold.

twitterexile · 17/03/2023 19:50

He is being monstered by the Left possibly as he appears on GB News in the same way that Andrew Doyle's reasoned and sensible arguments can be ignored as he presents on the same channel.

Signalbox · 17/03/2023 20:19

Can someone explain why the Left doesn't want you to find common ground with people...?

I've wondered this. I think it's because the left have backed themselves into a moral corner. They have a tendency to moralise every issue and then convince themselves that their position is the moral position so their opponent's position must be immoral. And if their opponent's position is immoral that means they must be a bad person. And because they are a bad person that means no common ground can be found on any issue because even if bad people superficially take the same position as you on another issue they must be doing so for nefarious reasons because they are bad and couldn't possibly be acting in good faith. Common ground would require the left to acknowledge that some issues are nuanced and not black and white / good or bad.

QueenHippolyta · 17/03/2023 21:07

Thanks @Signalbox that makes sense. Do you think the left moralise so much as they have replaced religion with their politics? Or maybe politics is their ethics and so they feel good and virtuous?

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:16

I've wondered this. I think it's because the left have backed themselves into a moral corner. They have a tendency to moralise every issue and then convince themselves that their position is the moral position so their opponent's position must be immoral. And if their opponent's position is immoral that means they must be a bad person. And because they are a bad person that means no common ground can be found on any issue because even if bad people superficially take the same position as you on another issue they must be doing so for nefarious reasons because they are bad and couldn't possibly be acting in good faith. Common ground would require the left to acknowledge that some issues are nuanced and not black and white / good or bad.

'The left' all think that do they? The whole of 'the left' think in black and white terms, moralise every issue and avoid nuance? Well it's a good job you are here to let us know they are all bad people.

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:21

Sorry I didn't get his name but if he believes in Free Speech why doesn't it apply to Gary Lineker?

Lots of people shout about free speech when it's a cause they agree with but want anyone they disagree with silenced. The Gary Linekar thing is a good example of some right wing advocates of free speech deploying cancel culture when it suits them.

Still I'd be surprised and disappointed if that was Andrew Doyle's position.

ancientgran · 17/03/2023 21:26

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:21

Sorry I didn't get his name but if he believes in Free Speech why doesn't it apply to Gary Lineker?

Lots of people shout about free speech when it's a cause they agree with but want anyone they disagree with silenced. The Gary Linekar thing is a good example of some right wing advocates of free speech deploying cancel culture when it suits them.

Still I'd be surprised and disappointed if that was Andrew Doyle's position.

There were a few people, I don't know who he is so I can't say what he was saying, I assume he has guests or a panel, but surely on a programme with that name you'd expect them to be pro free speech?

Signalbox · 17/03/2023 21:29

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:16

I've wondered this. I think it's because the left have backed themselves into a moral corner. They have a tendency to moralise every issue and then convince themselves that their position is the moral position so their opponent's position must be immoral. And if their opponent's position is immoral that means they must be a bad person. And because they are a bad person that means no common ground can be found on any issue because even if bad people superficially take the same position as you on another issue they must be doing so for nefarious reasons because they are bad and couldn't possibly be acting in good faith. Common ground would require the left to acknowledge that some issues are nuanced and not black and white / good or bad.

'The left' all think that do they? The whole of 'the left' think in black and white terms, moralise every issue and avoid nuance? Well it's a good job you are here to let us know they are all bad people.

I obviously didn't articulate myself very well. No I don't think that the whole of the left think that. That's why I used the word "tendency". And I don't think that people on the left are all bad people. I am able to disagree with people without thinking badly of them. Also politically I am on the left and most of my friends and family are politically on the left.

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:30

surely on a programme with that name you'd expect them to be pro free speech?

I would expect Doyle to be pro free speech because otherwise he's a hypocrite.

Generally the quality of the actual guests varys wildly as they try to represent a broad range of views. I've seen detailed discussion from genuine experts in the field and lots of empty talking heads like CH, many of whom just say whatever they think gets them attention.

TheBiologyStupid · 17/03/2023 21:40

I don't think that Doyle's position is so black and white. His concerns about Lineker's tweets seem to be around BBC impartiality and whatever contractual obligations Lineker may have? m.youtube.com/watch?v=tieMUVKcuD0

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:41

I obviously didn't articulate myself very well.

Forgive my sarcasm but I think there is a lot of black and white thinking about 'the left' on here lately. There is no 'the left' in the UK but there are specific groups that are moving the political debate in a very totalitarian direction.

Many of them are very right wing- the last decade has seen a huge accretion in government power to censor and limit speech push by the likes of Reece-Mogg and Braverman. Some are old hard left of Corbyn's ilk.

The bulk are neither. The people who've ruined Stonewall, the Lib Dems, Oxfam, the Guides and many more aren't uniformly left wing (even the ones who loudly claim they are communists). They are a weird mix of social marxism crossed with neoliberal capitalism and postmodernism. This bizarre philosophy- spreading cruelty in the name of being kind- is infecting everywhere.

I accept this third lot are quite loud in the Labour party and I agree with your analysis of what motivates them but I think it's a huge error if we describe the fight against self ID as a left/right thing and I think if we leave left wing people behind we will lose the argument.

Signalbox · 17/03/2023 22:05

donquixotedelamancha · 17/03/2023 21:41

I obviously didn't articulate myself very well.

Forgive my sarcasm but I think there is a lot of black and white thinking about 'the left' on here lately. There is no 'the left' in the UK but there are specific groups that are moving the political debate in a very totalitarian direction.

Many of them are very right wing- the last decade has seen a huge accretion in government power to censor and limit speech push by the likes of Reece-Mogg and Braverman. Some are old hard left of Corbyn's ilk.

The bulk are neither. The people who've ruined Stonewall, the Lib Dems, Oxfam, the Guides and many more aren't uniformly left wing (even the ones who loudly claim they are communists). They are a weird mix of social marxism crossed with neoliberal capitalism and postmodernism. This bizarre philosophy- spreading cruelty in the name of being kind- is infecting everywhere.

I accept this third lot are quite loud in the Labour party and I agree with your analysis of what motivates them but I think it's a huge error if we describe the fight against self ID as a left/right thing and I think if we leave left wing people behind we will lose the argument.

I actually think I broadly agree with what you are saying. I was trying to make a point in answer to a question and I was a bit black and white in expressing myself.

Ofcourseshecan · 17/03/2023 22:50

FKATondelayo · 15/03/2023 22:46

Actually there was a meeting of the GC (it was a big room) and we all voted Calvin to be our 'face'. Did you not get the outlook invitation?

Damn, no I didn't receive it. And I also haven't had my payment from the US religious right, which I thought they sent to everyone who says human beings cannot change sex. As for the Peking Gold I was meant to be paid, years ago as a leftie activist -- that would have come in handy when I was a student, but again it never reached me.

I blame the postal service.

DemiColon · 17/03/2023 23:09

Signalbox · 17/03/2023 20:19

Can someone explain why the Left doesn't want you to find common ground with people...?

I've wondered this. I think it's because the left have backed themselves into a moral corner. They have a tendency to moralise every issue and then convince themselves that their position is the moral position so their opponent's position must be immoral. And if their opponent's position is immoral that means they must be a bad person. And because they are a bad person that means no common ground can be found on any issue because even if bad people superficially take the same position as you on another issue they must be doing so for nefarious reasons because they are bad and couldn't possibly be acting in good faith. Common ground would require the left to acknowledge that some issues are nuanced and not black and white / good or bad.

You can see when people like this talk about specific issues, they tend to assume differences of opinion on social issues are somehow all about "hate". If you disagree about some topic in feminism, you must hate women, if you disagree about the purpose of marriage, you must hate homosexuals, if you disagree about EDI, you must hate ethnic minorities, etc. The assumption is that there is no argument, it's just a justification for hatred, and usually people like that can't articulate the argument of those who disagree.

Ofcourseshecan · 17/03/2023 23:16

Merida46 · 17/03/2023 10:16

He tells her he's a woman too he has a ladybrain
He tells her his identity and hers; they are the same
He tells her not to talk about her body; it's not fair
Her body is her privilege his own, a cross to bear

He tells her that she cannot talk or otherwise allude
To what her female body does it's nasty to exclude
He says respect diversity except he would prefer
That she would not point out the ways that he's diverse from her

He tells her that biology does not impact her life
She should still bear his children but she must call him 'wife'
He says that words must all evolve she must learn to make do
And now that woman is his word he's taking 'female' too

He tells her that a woman is whatever he decides
He will not put it into words she must not ask, he chides
He tells her he is more oppressed than she has ever been
He says she must agree with him or else she's being mean

She searches for the words she needs to talk about herself
The billions who exist like her their lives, their rights, their health
Whatever word she chooses now he finds a way to spin it
The conversation carries on but she's no longer in it

Rachel Irischild

based on

He Tells Her by Wendy Cope

This is superb. Thanks for bringing Rachel Irischild into my life, Merida46 - I hadn't seen any of her work before. I've now found some more online:

irischild.blogspot.com/2018/03/menstruator-and-other-words-that-rhyme.html

Menstruator, and other words that rhyme with 'hate her'
if you wish to be inclusive
please amend your language usage
'woman' has now been disabled
this is how you shall be labelled: ....

It's worth visiting her site to read more! I've been poring through page after page of witty, incisive feminist verse.

Tried to find out if she's published any in book form but I couldn't find anything in a quick search. I know it's hard to get feminist writing (real feminist writing that doesn't toe the trans line) published these days: the books so many of us are reading and recommending are by a very small number of women who have broken through.