Am I Reading This Right?... Rosie Duffield Throwing KJK Under The Bus?!

[EpicChaos]

From what i can tell, Rosie has quote tweeted a lloyd russell tweet, that is having a go at Kellie J.
Rosie it seems, has thrown Kellie under the bus by claiming, ' look i'm not like that other woman, so listen to me '! That's how i'm reading it anyway.
If so, that's the last time i hop in when it's rosie getting all the flak, she can do one!
I notice Bindle is there too!

Absolutely.

And that, I hope, we can ALL agree on!

I was just thinking about LRM and his speech re: schools teaching teens about auto asphyxiation while masturbating based on his (genuinely tragic and awful) 15 year old cousin’s death.

His argument was that children and teens are going to try things they see online, so schools should teach them about it to keep them safe, which surely has the unintended (?) affect of making niche sexual practices mainstream?

Yet he didn’t say anything regarding the prevention of children and teenagers from being exposed to dangerous BDSM themed porn underage (materials that are classified as 18+)

Even if you give the most generous interpretation of LRM’s comments by steel manning his argument and supposing that he wants schools to completely warn against all forms of sexual choking and put teens off ever trying it (which I don’t believe he was) surely an effective approach would have to be two pronged and prevent exposure to the adult content that glamorises it?

Why is LRM not outraged that his 15 year old cousin was accessing and copying BDSM pornography in his bedroom in the family home?
Surely even in 2020 that’s not average teenage boy behaviour - did an adult online groomer point him in that direction?

I’m starting to think all computers, routers and mobile phones should arrive in the box with the tightest content controls as standard, that way it will be up to parents to lesson the controls from the default, rather than the default being all users can access-everything unless parents turn the controls on

But yeah, LRM is not someone whose opinions any of us should give even the smallest of fucks about.

I'm very suspicious when people advocate for young children to access any medical procedures without the parents being informed.

That seems like a very slippery slope to me.

If people who work at the NSPCC think that protecting children from sexual content is a sign that “everyone hates sex”, then what bloody hope is there. James Makings himself, like LRMs cousin was accessing fetish sites under age.

https://james-makings.com/2020/02/10/why-does-everyone-hate-sex/

Apart from anything else, by choosing not to inform parents you are actively making a choice to deny that child an important form of safeguarding. Why would you do that?

I would imagine the cases in which it's not in the child's best interest to inform the parents are vanishingly rare (and as said upthread should align very closely to cases where the child is removed from the parent and the parent loses parental responsibilities). How many times is a child denied support and safeguarding from the parents because other adults have decided to deny the child that support and safeguarding? Do we have any data on this?

Surely this choice and decision in and of itself is anti-safeguarding?

Surely in ANY case where other adults decide to not inform the parents and it is also not the case that the child has been removed from the parents (/ parental responsibilities removed) there should be an additional level of scrutiny?

LRM is not fit to be an MP and should be kept well away from any political decisions that involve women or children.

It's is a very sad state of affairs where violent men like LRM get away with extremely intimidating behaviour against women MPs in the House of Commons and it falls to other male MPs to individually take a stand rather than the HoC doing something. Shameful he's still in post after that.

I think part of the problem is that Rosie Duffield seems to be so isolated within her own party that LRM's tweet threw her straight onto the defensive. I imagine that, if she'd paused for 30 seconds (and yes I know MPs are busy) she'd have surely noticed that the clip was part of a longer video.

But did any of Rosie's fellow Labour MPs support her or call out LRM's behaviour? Or did they all look the other way, leaving it to Karen Ingala Smith (who had her membership application turned down)?

I don't know how either RD or KJK deal with this kind of misrepresentation day after day. Their resilience is extraordinary.

Surely in ANY case where other adults decide to not inform the parents and it is also not the case that the child has been removed from the parents (/ parental responsibilities removed) there should be an additional level of scrutiny?

Absolutely.

I think this anomaly in child protection is something that has come from the pedo lobby.

Why the need to make these absolute statements? Especially when that doesn't align with the facts.

It simply isn't true for every abused girl that her parents are if not the perpetrators then at the very least condoning the abuse happening. My friend who was raped by strangers and so needed an abortion aged 13 had loving, supportive parents who'd never have condoned any abuse.

And if you look at the statistics into child sexual abuse, they show that the younger the child, the more likely it is that the perpetrators are family members, but in this age group (12 to 17) family members only account for a minority of the perpetrators.

Yes, the vast majority of perpetrators are known to the victim but that does not mean that therefore the vast majority must be family members. They are not. Which is why excluding the parents from safeguarding is likely to be more harmful to a 12-year-old girl than including them.

@CharlieParley excellent post.

So the data shows a 12 year old is more likely to be made pregnant / abused by someone outside her family which means the decision to not involve the family benefits whom, exactly?

Yes. We know that paedophiles infiltrate positions where they have access to children. Why is not informing the parents not seen for the massive red flag it very well could be?

In general it seems that there is a culture of blaming the family when, especially once children get to secondary school, children spend a lot of time away from family. They get themselves to and from school, and spend time in school where we know there are unacceptable levels of rape and sexual assault.

Parents have limited control over the environments their children increasingly spend time in once children get to the tween/ teen years

This ted talk on contextual safeguarding is really important in this discussion I think:

www.ted.com/talks/carlene_firmin_contextual_safeguarding_re_writing_the_rules_of_child_protection

I agree that this hole in safeguarding has probably been put there deliberately. It goes against all common sense.

We are in a time now when young girls could be sleeping in the same room as a male at guide camp without the parents being told and then, in the view of some on here, the parents also shouldn't be told if their daughter get's pregnant as a result of the first safeguarding failure.

And people don't think that there are reasons that some are trying to remove parental involvement?

It’s sobering

Another thread where qualified and knowledgeable women are able to refute emotive and knee-jerk comments, largely posted, in my opinion, in order to sow dissent.

The whole thing of ‘competency’ to consent makes me think of that judge who said the nine year old girl was “no angel” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/no-angel-sex-abuse-case-man-jailed-court-of-appeal-criticises-judge-for-his-unacceptable-comment-about-girl-nine-1487937.html I don’t know if anyone remembers that.

In this thread, I am alarmed that Fraser competence only sees red flags if there are ‘repeated’ treatments for stds.

No one, including KJK is saying she shouldn't.

Who said that?

“Who said that?”

There seemed to be quite a bit attributed to Kellie Jay that was not reflective of what she actually said or intended.

Not much has changed really.

Getting back to the OP's comment, I wouldn't even blame Rosie Duffield if she did betray everything she has stood for all these years. It must be hell at times.

How can we criticise anyone for giving way under torture.

Sadly, I agree. It looks deliberate yet hidden under a combination of well-meaning, lazy thinking, and utter cowardice.

Thanks for your kind words @dimorphism @Helleofabore @CryptoFascistMadameCholet @EndlessTea

Safeguarding is the hill I will die on. I don't have the energy to post here often, but I read, and I take it out into the world where I can.

💐

A 12 year old who starts a combined pill will have their growth stunted though. Most 12 year olds who have started their periods would have had their main growth spurt but still have some to come. Exogenous oestrogen will close their growth plates.

Where I live in Australia, for girls with awful periods, there’s been a move away from prescribing the combined pill for girls for that reason. There is a preference to not give oestrogen until 16-17 years after which a girls’ growth plates have naturally closed and to use a progesterone only pill until then. I don’t think the progesterone only pills are as reliable for contraception though.

Be interesting to see the Twitter responses if KJK was using the example of a 12 year old boy wanting PrEP. I mean, she wouldn’t, because she advocates for girls and women but I doubt the responses would be the same.

@EndlessTea @Helleofabore @CryptoFascistMadameCholet @dimorphism @Datun @CharlieParley @lifeturnsonadime @FuckNuggets @Soontobe60 @AlisonDonut

You get it! You absolutely get it! Thank heavens for that!
I read the first few replies to the thread and my heart sank a bit.
You have all contributed some, many in fact, very poignant and thought provoking points.
Even in my initial thoughts when i posted the thread, i didn't even consider much of what has been said, as @Datun has pointed out, you are all qualified and knowledgeable, so your contributions to the thread are even more important, so i thank you all, very much, for taking the time to post and for sharing your knowledge and adding it to the vast resources on this forum.
In my opinion, Rosie had no need to say a word about KJK, all she should have done, as i said, in my opinion, is absolutely nailed that nasty little man to the wall about his seeming lack of care for child safeguarding, time and time again and that she didn't is what really annoyed me, at the time of posting this thread.

@lifeturnsonadime " We are in a time now when young girls could be sleeping in the same room as a male at guide camp without the parents being told and then, in the view of some on here, the parents also shouldn't be told if their daughter get's pregnant as a result of the first safeguarding failure.
And people don't think that there are reasons that some are trying to remove parental involvement? "

This is such a very good point.
( I can't quote all of the excellent points that have been made on this thread - this reply post would be 7 pages long all on it's own, lol :-) )
We know this is something that could well happen and the victims of the boy in the girls toilets in America, 2 schools, 2 girls, are absolute testament to that.
Another current thread concerns the ' feminist event for 6/7 year old girls and nb's, where parents aren't allowed to listen. The red flags around that idea are abundant but still the ' right on gang ' are there, copy of the guardian in hand, applauding the idea!
Where is the safeguarding there?! Where?!
If we don't centre safeguarding, what the hell is the point?!
Whether it's in terms of trying to stop kids taking medical treatments that they certainly don't need, such as PB's, or having unnecessary, mutilating surgery, or grooming by agencies in schools, or men in houses/behind bike sheds, etc., etc., etc., kids need protecting and that's the be all and end all. Rosie should have absolutely nailed him as to his seeming lack of safeguarding! All day long!
Anyway, thank you all again for the valuable posts you've made here, you are all stars!

@RethinkingLife · Today 10:22
Off-topic. Can somebody tell me if 'search' is malfunctioning or why it doesn't return any posts for the OP's name? Is that what happens when someone de-registers or has the search gone awry?

I'm here, who are you and what do you want?
Why would i de-register, precisely?
Funny how your only post on this thread that i can see, was questioning my whereabouts, not a word about child safeguarding, any reason for that!

To Rotherham, Telford etc. I would say that Elizaazile is not UK based and argues very much like a zero-sum stateside feminist.

My view is that abortion should be available to underaged girls with mandatory social service reporting. I am also not against term limits for abortion.

Agree.