Women’s rights have gone ‘too far’, say majority of Gen Z and millennials, study shows

[taxpayer1]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/09/womens-rights-have-gone-far-say-majority-gen-z-millennials-study/

Could you summarise please? It is behind a pay wall.

Is it as depressing as the title suggests?

It's behind a paywall and I'm on a PC so can't read it.

Can you give percentages, OP, without infringing copyright? Say, for each question or choice (normally strongly agree, agree, don't know, disagree, strongly disagree) and split by sex (unless the respondents were asked their gender, which will make parsing it harder, of course).

I won't be able to read that because of the paywall. What rights do these youngsters want to see removed from women?

As a Millennial, I find this depressing.

What planet do these Gen Zs and millennials live on?
Perhaps sexism proper hasn't yet kicked in for them yet. Wait til they have a few kids and grow a few grey hairs and see what they say then.

The article is based on this research, I think.

www.ipsos.com/en-dk/international-womens-day-global-opinion-remains-committed-gender-equality-half-now-believe-it

Really? Too far????????
So young people think women should have less rights and are inferior to men…..

surely this has to be a click bait headline.

At the end of that summary, there is a paragraph which says:

"At the same time, about half of Gen Z (52%) and Millennials (53%) agree that things have gone so far in promoting women’s equality that men are being discriminated against, falling to 46% of Gen X and 40% of Baby Boomers. Younger generations are also the most likely to agree that a man who stays home to look after his children is less of a man, with 30% each of Gen Z and Millennials agreeing with this statement compared to 22% of Gen X and just 14% of Baby Boomers."

It’s not behind a paywall for me.

It’s suggesting that women now have more rights than men basically. The youngsters think that men are at a disadvantage and are scared to promote women’s rights as there is a backlash when they do. It’s also assumed that in
their lifetimes they feel that men and women will be treated as equals - so that patriarchy won’t exist.

I'm guessing it's complacency and ignorance in the cohort who think that women's right have gone too far.

I hope this link allows you to read the article:

12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2023%2F03%2F09%2Fwomens-rights-have-gone-far-say-majority-gen-z-millennials-study%2F

To be honest, the article is very brief and gives basic numbers for some big questions but I’d like more context for each question that was asked.

Apparently the pay gap doesn't tend to kick in until women are older and in more senior roles so that's likely to influence younger women's thinking.

The eldest Millennials are 42 and the youngest are 26. Most Millennials will be in their 20s and 30s, which are normal ages to have children. The % for different gens are similar, despite the sensationalised headline. The article also doesn’t mention how many people were in each sample size.

Gen Z - 52%
Millennials - 53%
Gen X - 46%
Boomers - 40%

I personally think that, nowadays, social class and ethnicity are bigger issues than men v women with regards of discrimination (in my opinion). Although I believe that medicine is very male focused and women’s health issues are not taken as seriously. Women are often gas lighted by doctors.

So 50% think women will become equal to men in their lifetime but this is too far now, so how will this be achieved? Also how is it too far if women still aren't seen as equal! People are happy for men to remain on top? The fuck?
As a millennial I disagree wholeheartedly.

Bloody depressing when women's rights are being eroded before our very eyes.

You can open an incognito window on your browser and that bypasses the paywall. In Chrome it is on the top right (chick the 3 dots).

I think this is true and have noticed a growing backlash amongst young people which goes against the narrative of young people being super liberal, progressive etc. I think there are number of reasons

1. Information on the internet is sort of global and without context. e.g. people frequently quote the fact that men have to sign the draft not women - this is true for America but not the UK. But everything is everywhere online
2. There's so much online that you can find anything you want to fit your point of view - if I want to make a montage of women saying horrible stuff about men I can find loads of examples. But I can also find lots of examples of men threatening to kill women, of people saying mean things about bus drivers etc. Algorithms make this worse so you aren't just dealing with cognitive bias but the fact that hate watching one video you end up hate watching others
3. Some complaints are justified - e.g. the situation with the Air force prioritising women pilots training despite the fact that there are less women pilots than men so men aren't able to get trained at all. The irony is that this was pushed by men like Air Chief Marshal Mike Wigston, Admiral Sir Tony Radakin. The Head of Recruitment who quit in protest at the discrimination against white men was a woman. But that's not the way its being portrayed at all - both "sides" ("woke" and "antiwoke") have a vested interest in saying this is feminism
4. Slogans - such as "the future is female", "girl boss" which are meaningless and exist for corporate promotion are taken completely literally by some. They don't actually help anyone though.
5. young women are less aware of the impact having children/not having children, growing old will have on their lives and careers. That would involve talking about biological reality and possibly women's limitations (hate that word but you know what I mean) which isn't fashionable
6. The only feminists likely to get platformed are those pushing a very shallow, quite meaningless line (and actually often being quite rude to men) so that's what people think feminism is. If everyone's blethering on about nonsense it makes sense to assume the wider problems are solved.

And the results all seem to be around the 50/50% mark, which suggests, roughly, that boys are thinking like most men, and girls are thinking like most women.

I think this is probably one of those instances where the word woman includes trans woman.

Women's rights (when including trans women) has gone too far.
Women's rights (when excluding trans women) has not gone far enough.

But this is really interesting (and odd):
"Younger generations are also the most likely to agree that a man who stays home to look after his children is less of a man, with 30% each of Gen Z and Millennials agreeing with this statement compared to 22% of Gen X and just 14% of Baby Boomers."

I have a theory that social media makes people associate what you (man/woman/good/bad/kind) less with what you are and more with how you present on a superficial level. Almost like a category error.

I’m early 30s.

The issue is the so-called ‘wonderful life of equality and choice’ we are supposed to have through working, has actually lead to women doing it all, rather than ‘having it all’, and they’re burnt out. Probably watching programs like Call the Midwife and thinking how easy/simple life was back then (I know it wasn’t).

The long and short of it is that working full time and having children is the worst of both worlds. Very few mums who do this appear happy, they’re stressed and tired and feel like they’re doing a crappy job all round. And the money doesn’t even go as far as it did, so fewer ‘nice things’ to incentivise it. It’s all about paying the mortgage and childcare. ‘So make the man do 50/50!’ You say. Mine does - he possibly does a bit more than me - and we’re still a bit tired and low level stressed a lot of the time. Things get done but not to the standard I would like and that would bring me life satisfaction.

Spending your life doing things you don’t want to do doesn’t seem worth it simply as ‘insurance’.

I would also hazard a guess that the current school of feminist thought - that settling down ‘young’ (20s) is for suckers, that if you did things the right way you’d be partying and living your best feminist life until at least 30 before considering all that dull settly stuff - is actually making women quite unhappy. We can say it’s unfair all we want, but men don’t have a biological clock, they can do this then simply select a slightly younger woman to have the family he wants, as long as he’s of a good enough standard to attract one. So as a single 30 something woman what’s left of the single men are either unappealing or in no rush to get married and have kids, safe in the knowledge they can find a woman 7 or 8 years younger when they want to.

We’ve kind of played into men’s hands and also the government’s thanks to some knee jerk feminism in the 80s and 90s, and I think younger woman are disillusioned with it.

It’s possible that this is a larger scale version of the effect where women are perceived as dominating and taking over well before the female air time proportion gets near 50%.

With the younger generations simply not having had the experience of hitting the glass ceiling or struggling to have senior men take them seriously and such like. When you’re 25, you don’t expect senior colleagues to take you seriously in
the same was as when you’re 45 and your post is more senior to theirs. Nor does sex discrimination seem the same kind of problem when you’re still young enough that the people recruiting for a post don’t consider you to be at risk of becoming a mother within the time frame they’d expect a candidate to stay in post.

I was amused to see this headline below the article:
"Church in town that Vicar of Dibley’s Dawn French once called home bans female vicars"

Maybe they’ll get their way and have a transwoman as Vicar. That would be sure to please everyone.

The article basically says the more than 50% of those polled ( I think it was about 40% of women and 60% of men to average out at 52% but it's not clear how big the survey was) think that "feminism has gone too far".

It's the most depressing thing I've read in a long time. It smacks of people who say that "diversity has gone too far" because there are two black people on a cop show or a major character is gay in the latest medical drama.

It's also based on this false premise that men are being discriminated against in favour of women.

I feel slightly ill by the whole thing.

I agree.