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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Experiences of a Trans Person

1000 replies

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:11

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
zurala · 27/02/2023 17:03

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:52

The problem is patriarchal, which doesn't equate to male. Male is a physical descriptor while patriarchy is a social construct that needs to be taken down.

OP, you say "male is a physical descriptor", can you tell me what it's describing? What is male?

SpudleyLass · 27/02/2023 17:03

stayathomer · 27/02/2023 17:00

OP I’m sorry but the mn feminism board is the one place no person talking about trans rights should ever venture. It’s like the trending section of twitter- you do not need to, nor can you sway the people here. Look at the answers you received- straight up abuse from the get-go. I am sorry x

Where is the abuse, exactly?

Women disagreeing with somebody who has lived their entire lives as males and therefore benefitted from male privilege, is not abusive.

Apparently women having any sort of comment on a topic that yes, very much affects us, needs stamping out.

I don't believe that in the history of ever, has such a minority demographic wielded so much power. Its mind boggling.

chunkcatmeats · 27/02/2023 17:03

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:54

Their destruction will come about by the same political movement. Keen, who you lot rally behind, rubs shoulders with anti-abortion activists and white nationalists.

ODFOD - ridiculous entitled child

StephanieSuperpowers · 27/02/2023 17:05

NalaNana · 27/02/2023 16:56

@invalide thank you for posting into what you quite rightly describe as an echo chamber. Sadly you will receive no understanding or compassion here, as has already been demonstrated. Look after yourself!

Although the OP may well end up with some email addresses of women to harass if they click on the tracking links, so you know, the real purpose of the post may be achieved. So I'd save my tears, if I were you, for someone genuine.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/02/2023 17:05

So I may have clicked on a link before reading the tracker thing. Any advice? I've got normal internet security settings?

Kennykenkencat · 27/02/2023 17:05

I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back

You want to be treated like a woman but as soon as you are you don’t think you should have to put up with what women go through.

That is nothing.

SueVineer · 27/02/2023 17:05

Boomboom22 · 27/02/2023 17:00

You saying things like existential threat ie in your mind is violence means it's then OK to threaten violence such as decapitation screams that you don't get it.

translation: women looking at op funny deserve violence. Thus proving exactly who is the problem here

donquixotedelamancha · 27/02/2023 17:06

There is a video of the full event online and kjk did nothing of the sort. Just more silly rubbish from the MRAs. Maybe he’ll grow out of it.

You mean OP is fibbing. Well I am shocked.

But those signs threatening women were real.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:06

Where did it take you @lifeturnsonadime?

AlisonDonut · 27/02/2023 17:06

NalaNana · 27/02/2023 16:56

@invalide thank you for posting into what you quite rightly describe as an echo chamber. Sadly you will receive no understanding or compassion here, as has already been demonstrated. Look after yourself!

He posted to try and track anyone clicking on his link. He isn't some poor ickle downtrodden woman, he is a man trying to track and doxx people.

nepeta · 27/02/2023 17:06

It's good to see actual data which should reduce that fear of existential violence OP mentions: Transgender people, overall, are less likely to be victims of homicide, for any reason and not just for hate, than people overall in the countries for which I have done the calculations. Some references for the UK:

unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/

kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

lifeturnsonadime · 27/02/2023 17:07

@Ereshkigalangcleg an article about violence against transwomen in europe, I came straight back out of it and obv don't want to click on it again so hopefully not a tracker!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/02/2023 17:07

Boomboom22 · 27/02/2023 17:00

You saying things like existential threat ie in your mind is violence means it's then OK to threaten violence such as decapitation screams that you don't get it.

I would love to know whether the ploppers agree with op on this.

I mean it’s easy to say ‘there there, are those nasty women being mean to you, poor you!’ but to actually come out and say, ‘and I agree that women saying things you disagree with makes it ok to threaten them with decapitation’ takes a bit more doing.

Rollonspring23 · 27/02/2023 17:07

TeenDivided · 27/02/2023 16:27

OP. A few questions for you:

  1. Do you think rapists like Karen White should be housed in the female estate?
  2. Do you think athletes like Lia Thomas should compete against women?
  3. Do you think women should be entitled to female only services where they feel vulnerable such as DV refuges?

Personally I didn't care one way or another about trans people, live and let live was my motto, until transwomen started trying to take over women's single sex spaces.

The questions posed above outline my concerns. I’m hugely supportive of everyone being able to live without judgement or prejudice. I hate the idea of you suffering and being judged. The difficulty lies in how to find the balance of trans people being able to slot into society whilst not impacting on single sex spaces. I think most people understand that most trans people pose no risk to women but some do and the protection of women in spaces previously reserved only for biological females has to come first in relation to prisons, toilets, changing areas, hospitals etc. We have single sex spaces not because all men pose a risk to women but because some men do and the opening up of previously single sex spaces comes with the same risk. I’m hugely saddened by your experiences too and I hope over time a way forward is found regarding protecting single sex spaces whilst promoting tolerance.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/02/2023 17:08

oh and a you tube video of KJK talking at the Glasgow event.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:08

He posted to try and track anyone clicking on his link. He isn't some poor ickle downtrodden woman, he is a man trying to track and doxx people.

The gullibility of some of the people who defend and enable this type of person never ceases to amaze me.

NotHavingIt · 27/02/2023 17:08

invalide · 27/02/2023 16:11

I think it might be healthy to document here the experiences of someone from the other side, and for you to pay it some mind.

I'm an early-twenties STEM student working in renewable energies, and outside of my course I'm a photographer and musician. I've travelled a fair amount and adore my home country of Scotland. Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

At the beginning of this month there was a 'Let Women Speak' rally held here that some of you here attended; I have seldom felt more unwelcome and stripped of dignity than while in your crowd, carrying out my photojournalistic duties (images 1&2). While capturing Kellie-Jay Keen pathologising my friends as subhuman perverts and members of the crowd flaunting their homophobia and their use of dogwhistles (subliminal far-right messaging) I was being brazenly looked up and down, receiving steely gazes and pursed lips and hushed whispers behind my back. While photographing the first speaker after Keen, who began her piece portraying autistic people as children devoid of agency, I was approached by one of you who made it clear I looked too queer for their liking and was squaring up for assault. I made my way out at this point (captured at 8:42 here and 9:09 here).
The atmosphere your movement brought to George Square was one I've only before experienced while documenting far-right rallies in Eastern Europe, where I have been hounded through the streets and beaten up for the same reason. I assure you, your ideology would feel very much at home there.

At the other side of the square things couldn't have been more different, you were bathed in colour and music and hugs and laughter, the place is full of friends dancing and dressed resplendent in whatever camp pretty things they felt like (images 2&3).

Ours was a crowd of locals; I strained to hear a Glasgow accent in yours.

Ours is a city that at short notice manages to fill the top of Buchanan Street (image 5) in solidarity with the queer community - the last time I saw it like this was during COP26. It's one that fills George Square in a candlelit vigil for Brianna Ghey.

Your movement has meant I'm called a pervert and a groomer while going about my average daily life. Our morally vacuous, increasingly fascist political class (thinking also of Magnus Hirschfeld and of Martin Niemöller's famous poem) is picking up what you've started and they're running with it. You may not call yourself a homophobe, a white nationalist or an antisemite, but you're sitting awfully comfortably considering that those that do find your movement incredibly attractive.

Double standards, somewhat!

It is acceptable for you to liken women who want to protect their spaces to 'fascists' and homophobes' but you take umbrage when it is revealed that quite a number of trans identifying men are guilty of violence, intimidation, assault and sexual assault? And that women attending conferences and events have been hounded and abused for many years by abusive trans activists who are anything but peaceful and loving.

Women do not want males in their protected spaces no matter how they identify. What is so difficult about that for you to understand? Women have the right to the privacy and dignity of their sex away from males no matter how 'lovely' and they will continue to campaign to ensure that is the case.

How your queer and joyful family respond to this fact is entirely your own responsibility. Why you don't you all get together and campaign for third spaces - put your youthful energy to some good use, and leave women's alone.

EarthlyNightshade · 27/02/2023 17:08

JusteanBiscuits · 27/02/2023 16:59

I'm sorry you have treated this way. Sadly, some can't see how evil it is to be calling trans people perverts, degenerates and paedophiles (which I have seen only today). Mumsnet isn't the place for you to be able to have a considered conversation about it.

Could you link to these posts? I am happy to report them

Motorina · 27/02/2023 17:08

pattihews · 27/02/2023 16:49

Would you link to, say, five of the thousands of threads that call you perverted degenerates? Because I've been reading the FWR board for years and I can't think of one.

Give us those links and I'll pay you some attention. Come on. Thousands of them to choose from, it'll be easy.

@invalide just bumping this up for attention. Invalide, calling people "perverted degenerates" is never okay. Link to those threads and I'll report those posts for deletion myself.

SueVineer · 27/02/2023 17:09

NalaNana · 27/02/2023 16:56

@invalide thank you for posting into what you quite rightly describe as an echo chamber. Sadly you will receive no understanding or compassion here, as has already been demonstrated. Look after yourself!

Oh yeah thanks op for telling us all that we deserve violence for looking at you wrong. Some of us do love to be put in our place

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:09

an article about violence against transwomen in europe, I came straight back out of it and obv don't want to click on it again so hopefully not a tracker!

I'd run your antivirus software to scan your device.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/02/2023 17:10

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 17:09

an article about violence against transwomen in europe, I came straight back out of it and obv don't want to click on it again so hopefully not a tracker!

I'd run your antivirus software to scan your device.

will do. Fingers crossed.

and thanks!

BigFrau · 27/02/2023 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Why do all the ploppers coming out of the woodwork use exactly the same writing style and phrasing... very mysterious... almost like MN allows name changing...

skilpadde · 27/02/2023 17:11

I watched the event live online. Others were actually there. Still more have watched the recording.

The consequence of that, sadly for you, is that people won't believe you when you make up far-fetched nonsense.

So why are you doing that?

SweetSenorita · 27/02/2023 17:11

Living in Glasgow, I have found a queer community of beautiful people who create a joy to everyday life I treasure.

Great. Then I suggest that you go and play with them and leave women alone.

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