Anyone know the truth about the protests against Drag storytime at the Honor Oak Pub?

[LindorDoubleChoc]

WHY DO CHILDREN NEED STORIES READ TO THEM BY DRAG QUEENS?

This is the pressing question above all!

Anyway, does anyone local know what actually happened. There was a police presence and organised protests apparently. I would love to hear the full story from someone directly involved.

It has become an unbecoming row on our local Facebook page (SE23 Mums). The hectoring posts have been created by the pro drag side.

@Iminthecupboard so the later drag brunch is adult orientated rather than adult only.

I think one is still on the oarents tbh, the pub is clear in their website what the later event is. Persinally I would not take children to a bottomless brunch as I have been at the tail end of these events (eg turned up as they ended for a normal pub night) and most people are absolutely shit faced. That is more concenring to me than the presence of drag queens tbh.

3WildOnes
Today 19:00
complain about there being a book in their school library with a boy dressed as a girl

The books unfortunately may tell very young children that if a small boy dresses up in anything flamboyant (that isn’t a pirate, spider man etc) then they have done something very unusual and they are subversive, special, and trans.

How damaging and ridiculous is that.

Again, an adult agenda.

Here's a look at some of the gaslighting books that are currently being produced for little children. Shelley Charlesworth points out in this Transgender Trend blog that:

"Books for children about being gay or lesbian always feature recognisable adults.... It’s notable there are no picture books for children about small children who themselves are gay or lesbian. Away from the wilder shores of academia where ‘queering children’s literature’ graduates might wish it so, pre-pubertal children don’t express or understand sexual orientation.

But trans picture books are entirely different; they are primers in how to be ‘trans.’ And children, either as the narrator or main character, are the means by which the child reader is taught what ‘trans’ is".

www.transgendertrend.com/trans-picture-books-little-children/

As well as that list there is one about a very little boy dressing up as a mermaid, then promptly taken by his ‘accepting’ grandmother to join a ghetto of adult transvestites. It is superbly illustrated and beguiling.

Then another is about a group of boring old llamas, but one of them secretly and guiltily finds a dress up box. He is thrilled by his get up. But then he thinks no one would like him if they knew about his secret. Then he ‘comes out’ to them. Then they all show him ways they too are odd.

I'm talking about a book where a boy wears a dress and that is it. He is still a boy. He is just wearing a dress.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Today 19:46

Thank you, that article is very interesting about these books marketed at young children, (and read to them by DQs often). It is particularly interesting about children’s developmental stages and how disorientating the ideas in the books are for the developmental stages the children are at.

www.transgendertrend.com/trans-picture-books-little-children/

Indeed ScrollingLeaves It's quite a shock to realise that books about lesbian and gay people / families are age appropriate recognising that pre-pubertal children don’t express or understand sexual orientation while books about trans issues are primers in how to be trans.

Why are adults (especially those working in schools and libraries) not seeing this?

If you don't want your child to be in the audience when a drag queen is reading a story, just don't bring your child there?

Why grown men dresses as women want to spend their time reading stories to kids is beyond me.

But equally I don't understand parents kicking up a fuss when a drag queen turns up to read at these events. Just don't go.

Jackofallsorts · Today 20:24
But equally I don't understand parents kicking up a fuss when a drag queen turns up to read at these events. Just don't go.

I agree with you about the pub, but not so much when it is a library, or the Tate, as these are seen as being educational institutions, and so, if they put on DQSH, it is like an endorsement from an expert source. If schools do it (do they?) then that is beyond the pale imo.

3WildOnes · Today 20:01
I'm talking about a book where a boy wears a dress and that is it. He is still a boy. He is just wearing a dress

Is that what the protesters were objecting too, rather than one of the baby-trans promoting ones?

Do you happen to know the title?

(Below is a sweet dressing-up picture by Shirley Hughes.)

The right to protest is an important one, and one that children should learn, too. I see no reason not to protest at something so inappropriate. Maybe it will jolt the parents who think it is appropriate to think again. And what about the poster 'Queer joy for all'? Somewhat suspect, seeming to support queer theory, a theory that suggests all boundaries should be broken.

@ScrollingLeaves

Pressed send to quickly.

@ScrollingLeaves
I don't necessarily disagree but the library is for everyone not just those we agree with. The Tate is primarily an artists space (not an educational one) though personally I see little artistic merit in drag ( or educational for that matter).

There must be some demand from parents for drag story time or otherwise no one would go. It's not like it's mandatory

And what about the poster 'Queer joy for all'? Somewhat suspect, seeming to support queer theory, a theory that suggests all boundaries should be broken.

I agree. The sign said 'queer joy is for all ages'. It made me instantly recoil. Alarm bells. I saw a gay acquaintance (probably isn't 30 yet) on social media upset today, because he saw criticism of that sign as an attack on his innate sexuality, something he recognised as what he always was. I understand that too. Therein lies the wider conflict.

I'm guessing perhaps younger people take that kind of slogan on face value, or see it pertaining to their own lived experience. Whereas others like us hags see it as pp described above. And to point that out does not mean to be denying anybody exists.

Jackofallsorts · Today 21:09
Pressed send to quickly

I don’t necessarily disagree but the libraryis for everyone not just those we agree with. The Tate is primarily an artists space (not an educational one) though personally I see little artistic merit in drag ( or educational for that matter).

There must be some demand from parents for drag story time or otherwise no one would go. It's not like it's mandatory

The Library is giving parents the idea that DQSH is good for kids. They are creating the need.

Meanwhile they are getting a tick for their diversity box, and probably their Stonewall Champion sticker they also pay for with money as well as children.

And the Tate likewise is taking the lead for parents. (And are Stonewall champions.) No there is neither artistic merit or educational merit in drag except that the Tate is into trans and queering for children. (They also show this is part of their education programme in one of their resources for schools.)

The parents don’t have real opinions in that they are following the lead set by those whom they consider to have children’s best interest at heart and be knowledgeable about them. The parents are also imo keeping up with what they see as a mandatory fashion.

Sorry, I put that badly. Drag could be very artistic, of course. But Aida H.Dee is not a special artist or writer.

Further interesting conversations with my son today. He knew a girl at school who decided she was male, wore breast binders and changed her name to a male name when they were in Y9.

He saw them a couple of nights ago at a party (they are all now 19/20). They are now still called a male name but presenting themselves as very "feminine" - crop top, belly piercing, make-up, breasts etc. So they are female, transitioned to male (in their mind) but now acting like a male who has become a trans woman . Their partner is a gay man. Even though he's in the thick of it and has grown up around it, my son finds it hard to comprehend.

Sorry - I know this is a sidetrack from talking about drag and children.

I’ve just seen some footage of a British pub with a DQ performing with small children watching. He hitched his skirt up to his waist so he can do the splits and is doing some terrible singing in a pink candy floss wig. A little girl is stood by the door looking like she’s about to make a run for it - her mum thinks it’s all funny. It sounds like some people have been drinking.

Not safe or suitable.

I’ve seen that now. It is an entirely sexualised performance, perhaps the sort of thing you’d see at a drunken not very pleasant hen party.

It may be part of the brunch session but children are around, and thus same DQ was at the story time one.

The DragQueen responded to a parent who had written to the pub perfectly respectfully, as ‘fueling a far-right fire’. So let’s be clear that ‘far -right’ accusation is just part of a ‘shut up bigot’ rhetoric that SW23 should be ashamed of defending under the circumstances.

Yes this is footage from the "more adult in nature" Drag Brunch at the Honor Oak where the protests were. It's mid afternoon on a Saturday in the main bit of the pub. Different DQ to the one doing the story telling and brunch at the weekend - but the DQ in the footage has also done the storytelling sessions there I believe. Apparently there's nothing inappropriate or sexualised about it (according to the local parents vigorously defending the pub and DQST in general) - it's just harmless sparkly fun like panto dames, and we're always taking our children to see those, so what's our problem? 🙄

Here is what the crowds were so nobly defending from ‘hate and division’.

Here was the rallying cry, the ‘Fash Alert’.

Oh yes, I saw that image on SE23 Mums facebook group. I wanted to comment at the time "But actually I do object to DQST and I don't belong to any sort of far right group" but was too cowardly circumspect to do so. It really made my heckles rise that the poster just assumed, without thinking, that everyone would be on board with it. I don't think it was up long before admin deleted it, so didn't get the chance to see a lot of comments.

Apparently there's nothing inappropriate or sexualised about it (according to the local parents vigorously defending the pub and DQST in general) - it's just harmless sparkly fun like panto dames, and we're always taking our children to see those, so what's our problem? 🙄

This is so worrying that those parents are now seeing defending a sexualised performance of a man in front of children for ‘reasons’ as some sort of social justice battle. Their herd like mentality, parroting the same lines about panto dames is worrying.

Drag Queens are nothing like panto dames or other forms of drag. And now they are creating another sacred caste of men who are automatically defended and above all suspicion.

That little girl's face

Years ago, I used to work in Shoreditch before it was hip and trendy. There was a pub round the corner of my office which my male colleagues thought it would be really funny to take me to one lunchtime as they knew - and I didn't - there were strippers there at lunchtime.

My face was like that kid's. It's just so sleazy and grubby. Taking kids to watch anyone - I don't care if they're male or female - gyrate and grind is just grim behaviour. The parents should be ashamed of themselves. Stupid twats.