Anyone know the truth about the protests against Drag storytime at the Honor Oak Pub?

[LindorDoubleChoc]

WHY DO CHILDREN NEED STORIES READ TO THEM BY DRAG QUEENS?

This is the pressing question above all!

Anyway, does anyone local know what actually happened. There was a police presence and organised protests apparently. I would love to hear the full story from someone directly involved.

It has become an unbecoming row on our local Facebook page (SE23 Mums). The hectoring posts have been created by the pro drag side.

@Ginmonkeyagain I’m not suggesting anything is ‘done’ I was just correcting the fact you said the bottomless drag brunch was an adult only event. it’s not

Reported. Out of order. This has fuck all to do with anything. I'm not into DGST but this is below the belt.

It could just be an entertainer with the bottomless brunch

Happy dc upstairs (if that’s where it is?) and parents relaxing

Everyone happy

So the parents are not with the children at the brunch, you say? In which case safeguarding rules apply, yes? X number of adults per child and they are all DBS checked?

Just had a very heartening conversation with my young adult son, who often drinks in the pub. He brought it up with me as he'd seen it on Twitter. He was making lunch in the kitchen, having just got up, having been at a gay club in Vauxhall until about 6 this morning!

He says he completely agrees with me that children and drag queens just don't mix and it instinctively feels odd. He completely agrees with me that the event was hijacked by a hideous right wing group. And he completely agrees with me that he wouldn't say out loud that he agrees with me because he feels he would be jumped on by the majority of young Lewisham people.

It's not the first conversation we've had about the GRA and the degradation of women's rights, and the degrading way women are portrayed by men in drag, but I don't think he's been indoctrinated by me. To him it's simply - drag and children don't go together. He said "what is it even meant to be teaching them Mum, it doesn't teach anything about equality, homosexuality, gay rights, even trans rights, so what is it for? drag is separate." It is, son, a fucking pantomime.

Me too, this is my community and those groups are supposed to be where you talk about schools/get rid of your baby stuff! I don’t want people to think I’m a bigot.

Another SE23 local in the same position! I know some of my local friends feel like me, but it's difficult to talk about it in a wider group as at least one friend has fallen down the ideological rabbit hole.

I found the Scummy Mummies post infuriating as well, not least because we move in the same social circles. Agree with PP about the sense of groupthink that pervades this. Our street WhatsApp had people high driving and saying how proud they are of our area. So those of us with quiet concerns just don't feel like we can voice them.

High fiving not driving - that's a completely different activity!

What are you saying? Gender being messed around with? What does this mean?

Happy to 'meet' lot of other like minded SE23 mums here! We need to start speaking our minds to more people. Courage calls to courage.

I see the moderator of the SE23 mums group has got fed up of all the bickering and apparently deleted all content regarding yesterday.
Looks like it was a couple of persistent troublemakers causing the problems (familiar names who have form for being a PITA!)

A shame as it could have been an interesting local discussion

I'm saying that I've listened to various podcasts/interviews with MtF transsexuals and most will talk about a childhood experience of being dressed up as a girl by an elder sister, seeing drag queens, being mistaken for the opposite sex, etc. And this is for both homosexual and heterosexual transsexuals.

Now I'm not saying that child seeing a drag queen instantly makes them trans (like some people are deliberately misinterpreting), but I suppose for the children that have a pre-deposition to gender dysmorphia it is triggering.

If only real research was allowed into the causes of gender dysmorphia instead of being blocked by activists.

A lot of the pro-trans groups seem very keen on transing as many children as possible, and stuff like DQST definitely helps.

As long as the pub is clear it is on I don't see what the problem is. To be honest I think it wrong to force your views on other parents who might be more open to their kids seeing drag queens as it's rated PG I very much doubt he's reading the gruffalo. Most drag queens are happy to identify as male so no quaking in your boots!

Well thank you Grumpybutfunny for that real time demonstration of how questions and those 'quiet concerns' mentioned above get shut down.

'Dressed as a girl' ?!?! I thought this was the fucking nonsense that we are fighting against. Clothes are clothes. Clothes don't define our sex. Jesus funking christ.

Am i the only one who doesn't know what a daughter cutting their mothers hair means?

Do they not mean the daughter had their own hair cut short maybe implying they are non binary or trans or something?

Yes but at least they have acknowledged that the reason for the deletions is ‘there’s a massive difference of opinion’ which I actually take as positive because it shows that not everyone feels the same way.

I can understand why they don’t want to moderate it though.

I’ve got no idea what Bernie means 🤷‍♀️

I don't think Grumpybutfunny is 'shutting you down', they're just politely disagreeing with you.

If they were calling you a transphobe or a fascist, then that would be a different thing.

No, there's more than one way of shutting down questions and the patronising 'quaking in your boots!' is a perfect example.

And he completely agrees with me that he wouldn't say out loud that he agrees with me because he feels he would be jumped on by the majority of young Lewisham people.

Well done to you for bringing up such a wonderful son - he obviously doesn’t follow that particular herd.

The really worrying part though is the difficulties in talking about this. It has horrible parallels with the nurses that were trying to report Jimmy Saville’s behaviour when he was sexually assaulting children in hospital and the nurses were silenced by threats to their jobs. I think I saw a report where some expressed their sorrow at not being listened to so he could continue.

If this was so perfectly fine, the people involved would be able to explain that all the performers are cleaner than clean, have enhanced DBS checks, have their performances vetted and filmed etc etc. If they valued child safeguarding they would go to extra lengths to convince us it was fine as they are away from the ‘norm’ for child entertainment.

Instead, we just see growing evidence of their utterly inappropriate conduct - erect and visible penises, twerking and sexualised jokes and porn. Any concerned parents are bullied into silence. Hardly convincing is it?

It’s lovely when the bleeding obvious is written in plain simple words that can’t be misconstrued.

Yes, but this is where clear language really pays dividends.

Imagine a family where both parents think that following certain gender stereotypes is really important. They may believe they don't, but their reaction as soon as one of their children is gender-nonconforming gives the lie to this. It might be a toddler boy who wants to dress up as a princess or have long hair or wear pink silky clothes rather than robust practical khaki or navy shorts. It might be a little girl who wants the reverse.

In the case of the little girl, the worst that could happen until recently is that she gets labelled as a tomboy. Most people can cope with this. Not as many parents struggle with having an assertive, active little girl who loves sport and outdoor play as having a little boy who doesn't.

In the case of the little boy, being labelled as a cissy or a girly kid is a huge issue in the eyes of some people, usually for homophobic reasons. This tends to be more of a big deal than a girl being a tomboy.

Because it is such a huge deal, it makes sense to me that little boys find it simultaneously exciting and shameful to break these gender-related taboos. As males seem to be far more susceptible to sexual paraphilias than females, I assume this becomes part of the child's personality at a very deep level.

I'd be interested to know if there is research looking at parents' beliefsabout sex and gender in relation to children suffering from gender dysphoria and or a later interest in cross-dressing.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I completely agree.
That isn't what that poster was saying.
Unfortunately lots of the people who were protesting this event are the same people who would complain about their child being allowed to dress up as a fairy at nursery or who would complain about there being a book in their school library with a boy dressed as a girl. I think it is important to acknowledge that the lot of the people who are campaigning agai st the gender recognition I'll etc don't give a fuck about women's right, they're just bigots who don't think boys should wear dresses.