Anyone know the truth about the protests against Drag storytime at the Honor Oak Pub?

[LindorDoubleChoc]

WHY DO CHILDREN NEED STORIES READ TO THEM BY DRAG QUEENS?

This is the pressing question above all!

Anyway, does anyone local know what actually happened. There was a police presence and organised protests apparently. I would love to hear the full story from someone directly involved.

It has become an unbecoming row on our local Facebook page (SE23 Mums). The hectoring posts have been created by the pro drag side.

[CryptoFascistMadameCholet]

@MerlinsLostMarbles

Why are people so obsessed with transpeople and drag queens all of a sudden? They've always existed yet society's obsession only flared up in the recent 4 or so years.

Also a reminder that stalking and harassing people is illegal, if it's motivated by hate that also makes it a hate crime. This includes false allegations of grooming or suggesting they "need their hard drives checked" (see link).

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/04/18/anti-drag-christopher-mitchell-auntie-titania-trust-hate-crime/

Do you ever read past a Pink News headline, Marge?

This man pled guilty to malicious communications and the prosecuting barrister argued for enhanced sentencing on the basis of aggravation because the posts were ‘considered hate’.

(considered hate by whom exactly? The actual law or the Drag Queen?)

No indication that the judge agreed with the prosecution regarding ‘hate’ and the sentencing certainly doesn’t seem out of the ordinary for malicious communication (which includes stuff like heavy breathing down the telephone).

The compensation awarded was much lower than the figure requested (just 25%)

The accused had no professional legal representation, perhaps if he had, the outcome would’ve been different?

I suspect I would personally find this man to be an odious tosspot, but factual reporting matters and he was not ‘Convicted of a Hate Crime’, he pled guilty to ‘Malicious Communication’.

https://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/23451533.protester-christopher-mitchell-court-drag-queen-slurs/

extract:

“Magistrates imposed a 12-month community order requiring he carry out 20 rehabilitation days and 150 hours unpaid work and ordered he pay £1,500 compensation. 
Ms Pocknell said the posts had a “profound effect” on Mr Ballard and were aggravated because they were considered hate crimes”

It’s so tiresome when anti-woman posters turn up to Mumsnet to chuck accusations around but only present half the facts - surely they know that we will check their homework and make them look like a right wally?

Perhaps Datun is right and we are unknowing participants in some strangers humiliation fetish?

[CryptoFascistMadameCholet]

This is the function room at the F&F:

https://www.foxfirkin.com/gallery

(click on the B&W pics and they turn to colour)

[SinnerBoy]

Also a reminder that stalking and harassing people is illegal, if it's motivated by hate that also makes it a hate crime.

Would you like to let the trans side know that? I've mentioned it to you a few times, but you don't seem to be interested in curbing them.

Is there any particular reason that you call out one side, but ignore, or minimise the behaviour of the other?

[Abra1t]

Copper Topp as in talking about their ballsack and bum honey on Twitter? Posts may have gone but were there a month or so back.

[CryptoFascistMadameCholet]

@bakingmads

It was in the Fox and Firkin pub in Lewisham. They have a big event room.

No, that was Patchworks in Leyton (the room is on their spaces for hire spec as a photography studio).

CabaBabaRave have used the function room at the Fox and Firkin in the past but it was not the venue in the viral Dangly Bondage Man video.

If you search up the CabaBabaRave threads on MN (one in AIBU and one here in FWR) you will find posts where we matched advertised venues with social media images…

[DemiColon]

I think the weird obsession is for some inexplicable reason people started trying to push drag queens at children. Before that it was understood as adult entertainment that wasn't interesting to kids, didn't make sense to kids, and usually happened in inappropriate venues for kids.

And pretty much everyone left it alone, went to events if they were interested, didn't if they weren't.

It was the move to child oriented venues that made people start taking more notice.

[knittingaddict]

@MerlinsLostMarbles

Why are people so obsessed with transpeople and drag queens all of a sudden? They've always existed yet society's obsession only flared up in the recent 4 or so years.

Also a reminder that stalking and harassing people is illegal, if it's motivated by hate that also makes it a hate crime. This includes false allegations of grooming or suggesting they "need their hard drives checked" (see link).

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/04/18/anti-drag-christopher-mitchell-auntie-titania-trust-hate-crime/

🙄

[LangClegsInSpace]

Is 'being a drag queen' a protected characteristic now?

[Thelnebriati]

Why are people so obsessed with transpeople and drag queens all of a sudden? They've always existed yet society's obsession only flared up in the recent 4 or so years.

So this 'obsession' started around the time drag queen story time began?

Why aren't you linking to all the men involved who have been convicted of crimes?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/drag-queen-library-convicted/

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

Why are people so obsessed with transpeople and drag queens all of a sudden? They've always existed yet society's obsession only flared up in the recent 4 or so years.

Also a reminder that stalking and harassing people is illegal, if it's motivated by hate that also makes it a hate crime. This includes false allegations of grooming or suggesting they "need their hard drives checked" (see link).

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/04/18/anti-drag-christopher-mitchell-auntie-titania-trust-hate-crime/

[bakingmads]

@LittlePickleHead

Yes I saw that post and it was most disheartening how many posters jumped on and added comments to the tune of 'so what?'

So many are captured in the local area with those that aren't afraid to say anything at all for fear of being labelled a terf or a bigot or a fascist. I also avoid the pub now too, but seems like there are plenty others who will continue to support

I think parents r scared to comment even though they disagree with drag events with kids present. There seems to be a group of local parents who r very pro these events who will call other parents names. And no one wants to be labelled a terf.

The other issue, it seems the manager of the pub, I believe her name is Charlotte is very active checking everyone who raises a concern. Not only is she very aggressive in any private messages, she has been known to 'warn' a few parents.

Best thing to do is just boycott the Honor oak pub. It's just not worth the hassle. Such a shame really as pubs should be a place you go to have a chillax and a drink and catch up with other locals.

[bakingmads]

@Grammarnut

The bondage guy did not seem to be in a pub, more like a gym or large hall - hired for the occasion? Definitely not suitable for children.

It was fox and Firkin pub on lewisham.

[bakingmads]

@Grammarnut

The bondage guy did not seem to be in a pub, more like a gym or large hall - hired for the occasion? Definitely not suitable for children.

It was in the Fox and Firkin pub in Lewisham. They have a big event room.

[LittlePickleHead]

Yes I saw that post and it was most disheartening how many posters jumped on and added comments to the tune of 'so what?'

So many are captured in the local area with those that aren't afraid to say anything at all for fear of being labelled a terf or a bigot or a fascist. I also avoid the pub now too, but seems like there are plenty others who will continue to support

[LindorDoubleChoc]

I didn't see that update in SE23 Mums FB group although I am a member. I wonder if it was swiftly deleted? I am boycotting the Honor Oak pub anyway. Bet they miss me!

[SE23mama]

These protests and counter-protests are still going on. I went along for the first time yesterday to have a nosey, and it was all rather silly on both sides quite frankly. I wonder how much longer they're all going to keep this up because it feels quite wasteful when you think of the cost to the public purse of policing their monthly dick-swinging shenanigans.

Anyway, I'm actually pretty creeped out by some recent behaviour of the manager of the Honor Oak Pub. A local mum/pub customer recently posted in the SE23 Mums Facebook Group that she'd discovered that the pub was hosting kids' tables at the Drag Brunches which we all know DO contain sexualised content and she said she messaged the pub to flag her concerns about this (she'd previously been supportive of the pub and Drag Storytime). The pub manager apparently got all stroppy with her and then - this is the creepy bit - following that exchange, she (the pub manager) started liking the mum's posts of her toddlers on Instagram (she had a private Instagram account that the pub followed - and the manager clearly went to check it out after their Drag Brunch exchange and started liking photos specifically of the woman's toddlers). The mum asked the manager why she'd done that and got no response - this is when the mum posted in SE23 Mums saying she was concerned about the pub manager's behaviour and said she felt there may be child safeguarding concerns. Then (so I heard) the manager started posting veiled threats on the mum's other (historical) Facebook posts warning her to be careful what she writes and sought her out on Twitter and posted: "You have your supporters liking the pictures you post of Children on your social media, especially the one of the young child ‘giving the finger’. So by your ideals, they are pedophiles?". It's all rather sinister in my opinion.

[CryptoFascistMadameCholet]

@LindorDoubleChoc

Oh no. Here's another pub thinking Drag + Children works perfectly fine and dandy link.

I'd like to reply I abhor Turning Point UK in every way but I also think Drag + Children is just idiotically wrong. I won't, of course.

That one is somewhat inexplicably run by a company that usually does drama/theatre type classes for babies up.

Perhaps their management team has been ‘Queered’ recently?

cliptheatre.com/about

[SinnerBoy]

The peer group dynamics of this, along with the legal implications of an adult telling a child to effectively engage in a replica of a sexual act are chilling.

Yes, I agree entirely. I must have been 14 when we had a red faced teacher show us what to do, using a banana, as we all looked on in horror, giggling with embarrassment. Making such a young girl do it, never mind in a group of boys she doesn't like is absolutely horrifying and it's impossible to think of any valid reason for the teacher thinking it was acceptable.

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

@SinnerBoy

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11818581/Parents-fear-11-year-olds-scarred-life-graphic-sex-education-lessons.html

There's more about the drag queen in the school on the Isle of Man and the other inappropriate teaching that the kids there have been subjected to. This is from the mother of a 12 year old girl:

The mum’s story was that her child had already been to one such lesson. She was asked to stand with a group of boys ‘she didn’t get on with’, hold a wooden dildo and put a condom on it.

She was asked to stand with a group of boys ‘she didn’t get on with’, hold a wooden dildo and put a condom on it.

The peer group dynamics of this, along with the legal implications of an adult telling a child to effectively engage in a replica of a sexual act are chilling.

As certain schools are evidently not going to exercise any levels of safeguarding or due diligence about the dodgy adults who write this stuff, parents are going to have to report these adults to the police for committing an offence against a child under the 2003 Sexual Offences Act

[SinnerBoy]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11818581/Parents-fear-11-year-olds-scarred-life-graphic-sex-education-lessons.html

There's more about the drag queen in the school on the Isle of Man and the other inappropriate teaching that the kids there have been subjected to. This is from the mother of a 12 year old girl:

The mum’s story was that her child had already been to one such lesson. She was asked to stand with a group of boys ‘she didn’t get on with’, hold a wooden dildo and put a condom on it.

[spinachsmoothie]

@ScrollingLeaves

As well as that list there is one about a very little boy dressing up as a mermaid, then promptly taken by his ‘accepting’ grandmother to join a ghetto of adult transvestites. It is superbly illustrated and beguiling.

Then another is about a group of boring old llamas, but one of them secretly and guiltily finds a dress up box. He is thrilled by his get up. But then he thinks no one would like him if they knew about his secret. Then he ‘comes out’ to them. Then they all show him ways they too are odd.

Look I know this isn't the point of the thread but this is a really weird and racist way to describe Julian is a Mermaid. There's nothing explicit about gender or trans issues in the book at all - it's literally about a little black boy who wants to pretend to be a mermaid. The event the grandma takes him to is supposed to be the Coney Island mermaid parade which is an event where performers and members of the public dress up as mermaids. In the book there are women, children and dogs in mermaid costumes, there's no suggestion that the adults dressed as mermaids are transvestites. Calling it "ghetto" because it's a children's book with mostly black characters is offensive.

[Walnut123]

@MarshaBradyo

I agree with this. I don’t do FB but know people in the group it’s just meant to be a friendly space

I’d agree too, the comments were getting way out of hand. It was a shame as it seemed to be one or two persistent group members who appear to have form for stirring the pot (one in particular has quite strong views and doesn’t seem to be particularly bright….)
The admin posted that she didn’t have the time moderate the (quite heated) discussions and would delete any further posts on the subject. Can’t say I blame her, I wouldn’t fancy being a moderator on a Facebook group, must be a bit of a thankless job.
To be fair there are tons of other local Facebook groups in the area that probably have less stringent rules

[LindorDoubleChoc]

Oh no. Here's another pub thinking Drag + Children works perfectly fine and dandy link.

I'd like to reply I abhor Turning Point UK in every way but I also think Drag + Children is just idiotically wrong. I won't, of course.

[LindorDoubleChoc]

I'm quite vocally opposed to Drag Queen + children events but don't want to get into arguments on Facebook about it.