Anyone know the truth about the protests against Drag storytime at the Honor Oak Pub?

[LindorDoubleChoc]

WHY DO CHILDREN NEED STORIES READ TO THEM BY DRAG QUEENS?

This is the pressing question above all!

Anyway, does anyone local know what actually happened. There was a police presence and organised protests apparently. I would love to hear the full story from someone directly involved.

It has become an unbecoming row on our local Facebook page (SE23 Mums). The hectoring posts have been created by the pro drag side.

So, Nazis turning up to protest about DQSH - terrible and scary for the kids.

SWP and genderists turning up to protest against Nazis - lovely and doesn't scare the kids.

Anyone who thinks that exposing kids to retrograde, misogynistic sexualised crap is a Nazi.

Have I got that right?

Also that is a spectacularly white crowd for Lewisham

I haven't read the article so don't know what it is but having lived not too far from there I know there is a company that does baby drag bingo at various locations in South London , it's called Clip Theatre - they also do not drag baby events , weird but they most be popular to keep running them

Was thinking the exact thing.
That part of London was very mixed,many years ago. 🤔

I'd love to know if the Scummy Mummies support the sign "Queer joy for all ages".
There was a DQST very near me but I wouldn't protest at the venue as it would intimidate and scare the children. I think most people would feel the same, so the size and political make-up of the protesting crowd at this London pub would also not be indicative of people who didn't want it to go ahead.

Slight derail , but regarding the children’s events in pubs , they have become very fashionable in my part of London . I have mixed feelings about it as I live in an area with a high Muslim population, who are then excluded from the events .

Still is, although the demographics have changed a lot in the 40 years we've been living in the Borough of Lewisham.

This is an interesting point. Do you think the it has anything to do with a lack of community space availability? Or is it more to do with people wanting to organise events for kids in places where they can have a cheeky glass of wine as well?

I am not a fan of DQST but I am even more uneasy about parents taking their kids to drag shows at “bottomless brunches” due to the alcohol consumption and the fact that the audience is mainly adults so the Queens are likely to tailor their shows accordingly. Some of the most shocking footage of kids around drag queens have been taken in the US at drag brunch events and “all ages” drag shows, not Drag Queens Story Time at libraries.

I am probably in the minority on FWR in that I don’t have a problem with drag or think it’s inherently an affront or insulting to women as an art form (individual drag acts are a different matter and can be quite misogynistic depending on the performer). However, they are adult entertainers, and I question the motivation of those pushing them as the perfect storytellers for preschoolers in libraries when their specialism is telling sex jokes and lip-synching to pop songs in nightclubs. It would make as much sense to have burlesque performers doing it.

If it’s to promote the idea of different kinds of people/ families then I’d say it’s doing a very poor job as most gay people are not drag queens. If it’s specifically to read LGBT themed children’s books like “And Tango Makes Three” then why can’t it be read by whoever does the regular story time at the library, if you want to normalise gay people? Not to mention many children are afraid and put off by clowns, so I don’t see why drag queens would be any more reassuring.

HorribleNecktie , unfortunately I think the choice of pubs , means the parents can have a cheeky glass of wine ( or three!) We have plenty of community halls and other such spaces .

Indeed @HorribleNecktie - this is doing anything BUT normalising gay people. Why would children connect a man with horrendous makeup and a dress on with two men holding hands and being seen as much as a couple as their mum and dad? It doesn't. Children would never make that connection. As James Dreyfus said on twitter, this is setting back LGB rights decades by being seen as the same group advocating "Queer joy for all ages".

I hadn't known about the bottomless brunch connection until now. That doesn't sound good at all. At the risk of sounding like a pearlclutcher, I worry about young children in the care of people getting progressively more and more drunk, especially as this is a daytime weekend event. Also, this is not the kind of thing that would appeal to a great many local people, for religious and/or cultural and financial reasons, so it's a stretch to call it a community event.

If there are parents here who have taken or would take their children to something like this, would the queer joy for all ages poster (and the fact that it didn't seem to offend the protesters on his side) give you pause at all? Or do you agree?

I knew the protest would be all white. The area is much whiter than it used to be (gentrification) but still very mixed. I thought it was ironic that one of the organisers of the protest was an anti racism group; I imagine the local black population would rather eat their own heads than take their kids to Drag Queen Story Time.

Ok I've read some press reports this morning and understand better what went on.

It's absolutely gut wrenching to me that in rejecting the notion that exposure to drag queens is good for children, I am now dismissed by some as being in the same camp as Turning Point UK. How hideous!

What this means is that non-bigoted, politically left or centre people won't protest for fear of being labelled a fascist. They are repulsed at being associated with TPUK so keep quiet.

This has honestly depressed me.

I think we should all speak up if we think parents are exposing their children to dodgy stuff. Safeguarding isn't about turning a blind eye.

Here's a popular drag queen who does DQST. This is the outfit he wears. I would absolutely wonder what else is going on in kids' homes if they're repeatedly taken to shows like this.

I don't think this is what people are doing though.

It's possible to be against DQSH, and still be upset and frightened by far-right groups descending on your local community hubs.

Turning Point, Patriotic Alternative and the other groups who have been involved in these protests could be picketing for better public transport, or free unicorns for everyone, and the right thing would still be to tell them to fuck off.

If anyone thinks these guys are motivated by a genuine concern for women and children, they are kidding themselves. They are a hate group, and any alignment between your goals and theirs is entirely incidental.

If these men are so keen to read to children, why do they have to dress up in womanface to do so? Why not just sign up to volunteer to read. I know many people who do this.

Sorry, just to add, this is exactly how reactionary far-right organisations work. They often have little ideology of their own, except anger and hate, but piggyback on popular/populist causes to get people to support them. And before people know it, they agree with them on half a dozen points (some of them reasonable, some of them not), and you find you've elected a bunch of violent anti-democrats (or, again, in the case of the UK, not). And that's when it gets really nasty.

That's why we need to stand up to these groups' presence, even when our views appear to momentarily coincide.

@thedancingbear Yes, almost like how the TQ+ community got force tagteamed with the LGB and now we have things like drag queens reading to children to promote “LGBT rights”. What having men in womanface reading to children has to do with LGBT rights no one has ever managed to explain.

My local museum had a drag queen story time , it seemed to be attended by largely white parents , again totally not representing the local population.

It's bizarre though that so many on the left think that calling people who don't want children being exposed to inappropriate performances fascists is a good strategy.

But the people organising these protests are fascists!

See for example www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2023/02/protesters-clash-outside-tate-britain-over-drag-queen-story-hour/#

And the protest in Honor Oak yesterday was organised by a similar group called Turning Point UK.

I don't see anyone - at least no-one on here - suggesting that having legitimate concerns about DQSH makes you a fascist.

Well it's a very easy shut-down and a nice comfy way to convince yourself that you're right.

And this is exactly what was happening on the SE23 Mums facebook group last night. I was reading it and seeing accusations of Nazism and being a Trump supporter and Daily Mail reader flung at parents who wete saying "excuse me, but we don't ALL think DQST is a good thing". I was thinking eh? really? Now I know that Turning Point UK turned up and misrepresented anyone who rationally objects. And it's just ugly.

Similar tactics to paedophile apologists tagging onto LGBT+ groups now and in the past so they can claim that anyone objecting is homophobic/transphobic/queerphobic. Nuanced argument is difficult in the age of social media.

This isn't fair. Turning Point UK didn't just turn up, they organised the protest. It's on their FB and Twitter for anyone who cares to look. This was the far right picketing an event for kids.

It's fascists who are conflating things by adopting the cause as their own. Certainly those now calling those with legitimate concerns fascists need to look at their critical thinking skills, but they are not the root cause of the problem.