Anyone know the truth about the protests against Drag storytime at the Honor Oak Pub?

[LindorDoubleChoc]

WHY DO CHILDREN NEED STORIES READ TO THEM BY DRAG QUEENS?

This is the pressing question above all!

Anyway, does anyone local know what actually happened. There was a police presence and organised protests apparently. I would love to hear the full story from someone directly involved.

It has become an unbecoming row on our local Facebook page (SE23 Mums). The hectoring posts have been created by the pro drag side.

I walked through it with my kids, didn't know it was happening and we were nearby for another thing so ended up there accidentally.

As Mardy says it was a rally against the far right, and the placards at the start (before the larger numbers arrived) were all about that, and protecting LGBTQ rights.

It was perfectly civilised, me and the kids walked through twice and the only issue was the crowding. I used it as an opportunity to talk to the kids about protest and why people do it.

It was also not Drag Time Story Hour but a non-affiliated event which has been happening regularly for some time.

Why does anyone take their kids to see a great big bloke in a revealing costume pretending to be a woman? Often a great big bloke with dodgy links to love has no age or fetishism links? Why?

That guy is a bartender in South East London (as per his Twitter bio) appealing to people in SE London. I didn't count and wasn't there, but I know a lot of people who were. All local.

Drag Queens telling your children gender is a load of made up nonsense is great? But why? Why can't you talk to them about that at an age appropriate time?

Still just not getting it. If I were being impolite I'd suggest the enthusiasts were just parents stuck with the aged-old dilemma of finding something to do with bored kids over half term.

Drag Queens telling your children gender is a load of made up nonsense is great? But why? Why can't you talk to them about that at an age appropriate time?

It's just none of your business is it though? If what I do is legal? You're perfectly entitled to think it's stupid but you don't get to dictate that I don't do it!

To be clear, Turning Point UK are a nasty fringe far right group. They're worth keeping an eye on in terms of certain key members' co-option of disability rights for anti-choice purposes:

makingrightsmakesense.wordpress.com/2022/01/21/a-cunning-fox/

Strangely, while the nuts and bolts of this capture was being set up, The Righteous Left had nothing to say. Instead, they wanged on about R v W as if that had any relevance in the UK. They only actually care about abortion rights if they can use the potential loss of them as a threat to women who refuse to agree that TWAW.

But beyond that, TPUK really are tiny, tragic and fringe. So well done to all those counterprotesters who turned out in large numbers to bravely face off a handful of sad old reactionary blokes.

You just made them look far more important and powerful than they are and created a frightening atmosphere for children.

It seems the “hysterical hate-filled mob” organising the “noisy and terrifying protest” was supporting the drag event. Protesting against the child-safeguarders.

Laughing at this. When I lived in Forest Hill for 10 years I was more worried about the stabbings. But the protest was Honor Oak. Slightly more upmarket back then. But no, Drag Queen Story Act really isn't something for children. You mention letting "other people do their thing" - some people do drugs or alcohol around children. I would prefer that as a society we dont let people do their thing in that case. And a lot of drag culture is clearly adult. And not suitable for children, no matter how "cool" the parents think they are. I don't know anything about Turning Point Uk but will now go and investigate.

That guy is a bartender in South East London (as per his Twitter bio)

Ha. Happy to skip all the other words of the bio then? Writer to the Independent, Vice, New Socialist? With 12K followers?

I suggest you do check them out. I'm pretty sure they and their type wouldn't have been welcome in FH or Honor Oak (which the Honor Oak pub isn't actually in) in any decade of the last 50 years.

Mardyface · Today 21:36

I'm not interested in DQSH. I'm not interested in drag queens at all (though I think there's a long dramatic history of gender bending which illustrates that it is a construct and your own word 'stereotype' actually supports that view).

I am interested when far right groups come to my neighbourhood to protest on a political premise about people undertaking peaceful, legal activities which have nothing to do with them though, so I'm glad that a group of my neighbours saw them off.

Your priority seems to be the seeing off this wrong tribe being in your neighbourhood.

‘Deconstructing’ the fundamental fact of life that there are two immutable sexes, and confusing children about this, with a hideous, sexualised parody of a woman, is more of a problem as far as I am concerned.

You misunderstand me: I think gender is a stereotype based on masculine or feminine traits which vary from culture to culture and through history. I think sex, on the other hand, is a biological state of being not a stereotype.

As for gender bending and it’s long and noble history, that is fine for adults.

If you don't like the idea, fine, don't take your child! Complaining about things in school I have sympathy for but not for optional weekend activities.

Drag has been part of family entertainment through panto for generations, plus it was mainstream Saturday entertainment in the form of Dame Edna ... we ended up ok

Children should be nobody's political pawns.

Not the far right's, not the far left's, not DQST's.

None of them give a shit about children. Shame on the lot of them.

gogohmm · Today 22:01
If you don't like the idea, fine, don't take your child! Complaining about things in school I have sympathy for but not for optional weekend activities.

Drag has been part of family entertainment through panto for generations, plus it was mainstream Saturday entertainment in the form of Dame Edna ... we ended up ok

I agree it wasn’t in school, or a library or the Tate Gallery, and parents don’t have to take their children. But not what you say about pantos or Dame Edna.

A panto drag queen is a small part of a bigger story, on for a shorter time, often, traditionally at least a funny old woman, and not reading gender change books to the children. When does dusk become night? Is dusk the same as night because they cross over?

Was Dame Edna ( dressed as a middle aged woman) and her social satire aimed at children?

So as far as I can tell:
The pub (which has historically hosted kids events, so this is nothing new) decides to host some drag events on Saturdays -

11am That Girl Drag Queen Story Telling drop-off for children (with ‘bottomless brunch’ for parents)

1pm That Girl Drag Brunch which is ‘more adult in nature’ (as it says in from their own publicity) and also featured Copper Topp.

Turning Point UK and Calvin Harris from GB News decided to come and protest against the Drag Storytelling (probably as a follow up to the protest at The Tate?)

A video was circulating from Instagram
of Copper Topp hitching up their mini skirt and doing the splits, in the pub, in front of children - apparently this was from the Drag Brunch, not the Storytelling (not sure why that makes it ok!)

There was a counter-protest organised against the ‘far right fascists’ - I think a lot of those protesting did so with good intentions - and far-outnumbered Turning Point UK.

I do know that some local parents have concerns about the drag storytelling but would not wish to align themselves with Turning Point UK.

Looking at photos of the crowds in support of the Drag story time, a lot seem relatively young. Probably a lot of them not parents, or have given much thought to why Drag storytelling might not be such a great thing.

Personally I am not in favour of Drag Storytelling - I wouldn’t have taken my own kids - I feel it reinforces stereotypes of women, and stories should speak for themselves and not need to be read by a Drag Queen. However that’s my opinion and as others have said it’s in a pub not a school, so it’s a free choice whether to attend.

Hopefully all the out of area visitors will have helped the local businesses anyway.

I would never turn up to protest outside a children's event because that would risk immediate, additional harm to children.

But neither will I shut up or 'mind my own business'. It doesn't matter that they are not my children or that I can choose for my children to opt out of the harm.

If children are being harmed then it is my business. Safeguarding is everyone's business. We all create the culture that all of our children grow up in.

Fuck this shit.

I agree. I live in se23, I don’t think drag is appropriate entertainment for kids and I would never take mine. I wouldn’t protest against it, or take my kids anywhere near where there’s going to be trouble, but if had been my library (for example) I would have raised my concerns.

I feel like critical thinking is missing from those parents who would take their kids to this sort of thing. they are trying to be inclusive and open minded and mean well i think. But I reallt take offence at being called a fascist by the likes of the scummy mummies, local influencers. That’s pissed me off.

I think it's great to hear that drag queens are supporting local communities. Are they doing this kind of work with any other groups does anyone know? Like say with refugees? Or in prisons where I believe literacy levels are very low? Or is it just with small children?

But Dame Edna wasn't twerking before doing the splits in a pink rubber mini skirt with their tiger print thong in front of Children. I can imagine the letters to "Points of view" if that had happened.
P.s. there's a clip of the performer on Social media doing the above.

The issue is that anyone who expresses concern about drag story time for kids is immediately labelled a right wing fascist bigot. It’s like everyone is expected to have the same opinions, you aren’t allowed to think at all differently.
I’m not right-wing, voted Labour, didn’t vote for Brexit. However I don’t think drag is right for young kids. It’s adult entertainment for a reason. But I couldn’t ever voice my opinion.

Yes I'd love to know the other community work they are involved in too.

Otherwise it seems it's all about queering the kids.

The issue is that anyone who expresses concern about drag story time for kids is immediately labelled a right wing fascist bigot. It’s like everyone is expected to have the same opinions, you aren’t allowed to think at all differently.

It's left wing fascism. You must agree in children being active in kink otherwise you're a nazi.

Tell me exactly who is compelling speech and calling anyone who doesn't agree a bigot?

Fucking ridiculous.

And I say all that as a former paid up member of the Labour Party.

lifeturnsonadime · Today 23:31

Floisme · Today 23:21
I think it's great to hear that drag queens are supporting local communities. Are they doing this kind of work with any other groups does anyone know? Like say with refugees? Or in prisons where I believe literacy levels are very low? Or is it just with small children?

Yes I'd love to know the other community work they are involved in too.

Otherwise it seems it's all about queering the kids.

As this supporter would seem to agree.