the Sex topic on MN

[beastlyslumber]

I couldn't see a thread in FWR, though there are plenty in Site Stuff and AIBU. I thought it would be good to hear what women here think, especially about the safeguarding fails. MN hosting discussion of people graphically describing CSA and a 'sex chat' for people to find hook ups. Justine's response was to say that maybe they underestimated the negative impact, but they're going to carry on anyway. Posters who've reported threads and comments have been ignored.

I don't see how MN can keep going as a parenting site if it is failing on very basic safeguarding. Someone on another thread pointed out that sex forums at least have a bare minimum of safeguards, such as age verification, a list of banned topics, and active moderation (rather than the after-the-fact reports and deletions MN usually do.)

There are also concerns that it changes the nature of the people coming to post on MN and generally makes women less able to access the help and advice they need. I've noticed for a while that there's more victim blaming and misogyny in the relationships topic - apparently MN changed the posting rules last year so that new users only have to wait 7 days to post in the sex topic, where it was previously 90. So it's possible that the change there is related to that.

Sorry for the long OP! Just really wondering what women here think.

According to Justine:

Something I want to put on record is that this decision to move Sex threads into Active conversations had absolutely zilch to do with the Smilemakers partnership. There was no pressure put on us to make this move and at no point in any thinking about this did Smilemakers come up. Over the years we've literally turned down millions of pounds from brands because we've categorically refused to engage in disingenuous marketing and/or take money from those brands which don't make parents' lives easier - I think we've shown that we're pretty good at resisting commercial pressure.

I will have immense respect for Justine if she produces an assertive reversal of a situation that should never have been allowed to arise. How did she think MN users would respond? I'd hate to leave the site, if only because there's nothing to match FWR anywhere else.

What part of the collab with Smilemakers and their encouraging sex after childbirth and 'vulva-havers' vocabulary made Justine think it was in the spirit of Mumsnet though??

So would I, but I really don't think it's going to happen.

I think her response is pretty good: taking the sex threads out of active, enforcing better safeguarding and boundaries, and considering the impact it's having on the whole site. However, she hasn't addressed the issue of the hook up thread or the depictions of CSA. I don't think she fully understands the safeguarding implications.

People have been cancelling their premium memberships and de-registering so I expect that this has forced MN's hand.

I don’t mind the sex topic, and it used to function as a place where women could as genuine questions about sex, including sexual problems, and also about sexuality - there’s nothing wrong in that! But previously you had to go and seek it out from the talk menu — much like the couple of other “hidden in plain sight” boards. Why can’t it stay like that? It would be no problem to reverse the change and “hide” it again so that it could go back to its original function.

Didn’t know there was a collab with Ann Summers. They’re ethically very problematic, and I don’t like the porn connections.

Healthy discussion about sex between women - great. Commercial links with porn and sex industry mongers - no thanks!

It would be no problem to reverse the change and “hide” it again so that it could go back to its original function.

That's what Justine said they'll do.

Many people do ask for advice about sex, but not in the sex topic because they're aware of the audience there. Women keep their genuine questions under the radar because of men. There are some men there who post that might be 'decent guys', but they still don't get that their very presence there is problematic.

Exactly. In one of Justine's replies, her argument was that women should have a space to talk about lack of sex drive etc. In my experience, posters tend to talk about that under the Relationships or Menopause topics. The reason for this is absolutely due to the fetishisation of the sex boards. Anyone who has had more than a cursory glance at them can see that.

It’s a strange direction for the MN ‘brand’ to be heading in.

A couple of weeks ago, when the sex topic popped up in Active, I thought I was on the wrong site for a moment. Rimming threads and vibrator adverts. I mean…really?!

It’s all just a bit seedy.

Sex is everywhere on the internet. Pervs have got literally thousands of places they can go to get their kicks. Why is MN choosing to facilitate this? It’s pretty obvious the board is overrun with thirsty men and a few mentally unstable women. Very little of it is constructive chat.

I just don’t get it.

I am gobsmacked at this. I don't spend much time on MN anymore due to continual constriction of free speech and have FWR as my link landing page and only peek into Active or AIBU occasionally so this is news to me!

Just no. No. I don't understand when has 'hookups' been a thing on MN, why?

Women always did come on MN asking for sometimes explicit or odd sex based advice in the past (swinging advice etc) on general threads like chat. So was that the initial thinking behind a whole sex topic? What are the mods thinking?

Helleofabore did a breakdown of the history of the sex topic in one of the threads. I'll see if I can find it.

Not seen the CSA one, and the sex board seems a really odd place for anything about that to be.

I sometimes lurk on the sex board, may have posted once or twice. Personally I'm as happy to read about rimming as I am threads about cooking meat or lip fillers. None of these are things I do but I don't want MN to only be for women with my precise habits and interests.

I do completely share concern over moderation and safeguarding however. I too have noticed the influx of really backwards thinking misogyny on the relationship board and that is a huuuuge problem. Imagine posting about an escalating DV situation and the first few replies were of that calibre. The OP might never return to the thread and miss life saving support.

I've not been massively monitoring it but my impression was that late evening posts got more misogynists. I'm afraid my bias shows here but I assumed them to be US* posters but perhaps it is just men from anywhere.

*I know there are lots of wonderful people in the US. It's just it seems as if there's no space for feminist thought there. You can only have Trump or hyper individualistic liberal, both of which are very misogynist.

All the above, and I'm really annoyed that feminism is still the board that's seen as a problem on Mumsnet. It all feels like mission creep. Mumsnet is losing what used to make it unique.

Ugh, there's even posters defending this shit and slating women speaking out about it.

Is it where the 'sex posi' crowd hang out? That would explain a lot.

As the porn industry shows, creepy men will pay for access to women and pay more than women will for required services.
I do hope they doesn't justify making this a "match making" site because it "supports" women.
The whole vibrator advertising has had me reducing access already. I can't be bothered with people thinking mummy sites talk mostly about sex. We talk also about sex, not mostly about it.
I do think there's a sinister 3d plot on to drive away the women who talk about centring women and bring in those who talk about healthy male relationships which draws in men who spend money on women. So annoying.

I saw on the reddit sub that someone set up a spinoff site in protest😏
I wonder if they'll get any GC posters over there.

Maybe we should just start loads of anti porn and anti prostitution topics on the sex board?

Make it a very unsexy place about erectile dysfunction and porn death grip, with a side order of lived experience of trafficked women?

No, not me. It was an excellent post by LangClegsInSpace!

I just quoted it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4743656-why-is-sex-topic-now-in-active?page=23&reply=124016253

I quoted it again as the thread is now on page 40

Thank you! Sorry for mixing you up!

I was thinking we should all just go on the sex topic and post about deeply unsexy things like verrucas and support stockings, but then I’m sure there’s men in the world that would find that a turn on….

No worries. It was a post that should be applauded and I thank langclegsinspace for pulling it together!

The last attempt to setup a MN alternative completely and utterly missed the point about namechanging (shades of the Times debate). I suspect any new platform would be similarly dim and not only miss the point, but try to sell it as a "feature".

The bottom line is MN is a commercial concern. It's an intersection of widely available and familiar and easy to use.

If more people knew about usenet or IRC, there could be plenty of spaces to blather on.