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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Autistic teen told to call male TA “Mx” & not “Sir” or “Mr *name*

446 replies

BethDuttonsTwin · 24/02/2023 16:51

This happened to dd this morning at school. She then came out of school at told me she no longer wants one to one help in her lessons - her EHCP says 25 hours a week. It’s too difficult to remember what to call him and she’s embarrassed she will get it wrong in front of the other students.

What now? I want to make a formal complaint. Am raging tbh. Can someone tell me who I need to be contacting please? The school are totally woke and rainbow soaked. Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
BlessedKali · 24/02/2023 23:53

dimorphism · 24/02/2023 22:47

Wow the absolute trolls displaying hate towards children with SEND on this thread. I don't know what kind of 'phobic' that is but it's what proper bigotry looks like.

Children are not there to validate adults who are paid to look after them and teach them.

This TA is failing the absolute basic first level of care and safeguarding responsibility - to not place their needs above those of the the child and to not make the child feel scared. The OPs child is sufficiently fearful - after ONE DAY - that they no longer want any very hard fought for 1 to 1 time. Essentially denying their access to education because a man has made them scared.

That's a pretty serious safeguarding failure right there.

And, whilst we're talking safeguarding, here's the definition of emotional abuse in KCSIE 2022, which all school staff should have been trained on (bolding is mine).

"28. Emotional abuse: the persistent emotional maltreatment of a child such as to
cause severe and adverse effects on the child’s emotional development. It may involve
conveying to a child that they are worthless or unloved, inadequate, or valued only
insofar as they meet the needs of another person. It may include not giving the child
opportunities to express their views, deliberately silencing them or ‘making fun’ of what
they say or how they communicate. It may feature age or developmentally inappropriate expectations being imposed on children. These may include interactions that are beyond
a child’s developmental capability as well as overprotection and limitation of exploration
and learning or preventing the child from participating in normal social interaction."

I personally think forcing a child every day to use wrong sex pronouns that they struggle with and which cause them cognitive dissonance, communication difficulties and distress constitutes emotional abuse.

And to those saying 'oh this is all part of life'. The fact is, most people used sex-based pronouns and forms of address. For neurodiverse people or those for whom English is not a first language, menopausal women with brain fog and many others, they simply will not be able to deal with changing the entire rules of grammar and everything they've ever learned about English grammar so that pronouns are individual rather than referring to one of two sex classes. So trans people do need to get used to that in the workplace. No-one means any harm, it's just their lived experience is that pronouns are sex-based not gender based. Anyone with a modicum of respect for the needs of others will accept that.

(And to be just as eloquent aa you...)

Abso-fucking-lutely

Stopsnowing · 25/02/2023 00:14

Using Mx on forms etc because you don’t wish to disclose to a stranger whether or not you are a miss or a Mrs or a mr is entirely different to expecting someone to address you as mx.

however, the issue isn’t the title per se but WHY the TA is requiring it to be used. Because he identifies as a woman or non binary or gender neutral or what? That is what would make a lot of people uncomfortable. Being forced to go along with a pretence that goes against reality.

EdithStourton · 25/02/2023 01:11

Nimbostratus100 · 24/02/2023 17:35

Mx ( pronounced (mux) is a perfectly normal well used title, standard for many years, a choice for anyone that doesnt want their title to be sex-linked

Very late to the party with this, but I have never come across anyone in RL using Mx. I've only heard of it.

Where I live (fairly rural) even Ms raises eyebrows. I work in a school and though introduced as Ms Stourton, I ended up being called Miss Stourton, except by those who already knew me who called me Mrs from the off. Gradually everyone realised I was married and started calling me Mrs Stourton. Honestly, not worth making a fuss about. Not to me, anyway.

Besides, I work with autistic children and my role in that is to make life as straightforward for them as possible, with the appropriate level of challenge. Stressing them about using the 'correct' title for me would be 100% inappropriate.

In OP's shoes I'd be complaining, firstly to the SENCo and if no joy there, further up the school.

EdithStourton · 25/02/2023 01:20

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 24/02/2023 23:00

How much is he being paid for this, I ask.

To be fair, feck all.
TAs are woefully underpaid, especially considering the vast amount of overtime that they all work (where I am, anyway).

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:18

Boiledbeetlesaurus · 24/02/2023 20:44

Wow! Does Disability discrimination mean nothing to you?

Where is the discrimination?

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:19

ReadersD1gest · 24/02/2023 20:48

The very type who would demand "re education" for any transgressions on
the pronoun front, too.

Maybe have a day off from being a complete arse.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:22

Itisbetter · 24/02/2023 21:23

I have a large family and none of my children (only a couple left in school now) have come across this in use before Uni

And?

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:33

Audience, please note that WomanStanleyWoman2 thinks laughing emojis are the appropriate way to react to a facet of my disability.

You never mentioned a disability. What disability prevents you from knowing your line manager’s name? It’s shitty behaviour to try to criticise someone for not knowing every detail about your life.

Slothtoes · 25/02/2023 06:29

Given that an autistic child may well have an extremely high anxiety about school, the noise, the sensory overload, the rules, teachers, all the unwritten social stuff in combination as high barriers to leaning already….. the idea of then placing that vulnerable child with an adult who requires careful handling even by the child… but who is being paid to support that child’s additional needs?
It’s way, way beyond inappropriate. I’m so sorry OP. Autism resources always point to the need for professional adults to be child-focused and this person with their special naming conventions is definitively not that.

Boiledbeetlesaurus · 25/02/2023 08:08

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:18

Where is the discrimination?

You don’t know your line manager’s name?! 😆😆😆

🖕

There

Boiledbeetlesaurus · 25/02/2023 08:20

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:19

Maybe have a day off from being a complete arse.

On behalf of quite a few of us on this thread...

Right back at you love.

Boiledbeetlesaurus · 25/02/2023 08:23

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:33

Audience, please note that WomanStanleyWoman2 thinks laughing emojis are the appropriate way to react to a facet of my disability.

You never mentioned a disability. What disability prevents you from knowing your line manager’s name? It’s shitty behaviour to try to criticise someone for not knowing every detail about your life.

See below...or try google

Autistic teen told to call male  TA “Mx” &  not “Sir” or “Mr *name*
nilsmousehammer · 25/02/2023 08:56

This thread illustrates two things, really quite sickeningly to me.

One is the major problem of many Autistic kids who have reached the point of school refusal (and some diagnosed with PTSD ffs, children) because of teachers absolutely convinced they Know About Autism, full of self confidence and belief that they know it all, and with very little training or understanding of Autism. It's a big national problem. Come and see the damage inherent in the system.

The other is that there are those who believe that nothing and no one ever matters the second a T person is involved.

We have a child with a severe developmental disability ffs, you do not get 25 hours support on an EHCP without severity of need, who is being demanded to reframe her trauma, learn to cope, and meet the needs of the adult employed to help her. What do those posters expect of the employed adult with the job contract? Absolutely nothing. He has entitlement and no responsibilities at all in those posters' minds.

The thing is: it may very well be that this TA, once aware of the issue, will be horrified at the child's distress and will be very able to be accommodating, inclusive and very much good at their job.

But those rushing to wave the T flag and scold everyone for transphobia on this thread - how many are actually TQ+ themselves?

What damage are they doing to T people in forcefully pushing the belief that the job of everyone else on the planet is to revolve entirely around the needs of T people and never expect any reciprocation in return? We've seen women with trauma and disabilities demanded that they stop having them, shut up and serve T male people in their spaces, let T male people examine them post rape no matter how distressing, let T male people crack on with the abuse of women in female prisons, and now apparently even disabled children have to serve regardless of impact.

How exactly do you think this fosters good feelings and trust towards T people? We know nothing of this TA or his skills or his feelings or how he intends to resolve it, but the posters supporting him here are doing him no favours of any kind.

And again. Slowly. For those who do not have Autism, or have a loved one with Autism.

  • Fear of making mistakes can be so significant an Autistic person will avoid the whole situation (such as going to school or having needed support) rather than risk it.

Please do not push ablism on this with 'well they just need to get over it' you are not talking about someone neurotypical.

  • Many Autistic people cannot look at facts and lie about them. Such as pretend for someone else's sake that they are a different sex to the one they are. It causes severe anxiety and distress.

'Allies' need to get a grip that needs either get balanced with responsible reciprocation, or the world will lose all patience altogether.

nilsmousehammer · 25/02/2023 08:59

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:33

Audience, please note that WomanStanleyWoman2 thinks laughing emojis are the appropriate way to react to a facet of my disability.

You never mentioned a disability. What disability prevents you from knowing your line manager’s name? It’s shitty behaviour to try to criticise someone for not knowing every detail about your life.

You have not read the thread properly then. That poster explained their need.

nilsmousehammer · 25/02/2023 09:02

OP really sorry that your seeking of support for your daughter has unleashed a lot of ablist, political unpleasantness.

I hope you're all right and have found some help in the early pages of this thread.

Commah · 25/02/2023 09:11

My DS is autistic and calls everyone He, no matter how many times we correct him. Women generally just ignore this and accept it’s a disabled child struggling with language.

I would hate to put DS in a situation where someone was militant about correct pronouns and got angry and complained. Especially when the mistake would lead to people calling him transphobic and ostracising him. So I totally understand why this is an issue for OP and her DD. Poor girl is terrified she’ll make a mistake and be bullied for it.

caraloft · 25/02/2023 09:18

Bramblecrumble22 · 24/02/2023 17:04

Reminds me of a teacher called ms... At school and she got really shitty about being called miss.

I don't understand why that is unreasonable of the teacher.

Why could students not call her Ms?

SinnerBoy · 25/02/2023 09:24

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 23:00

This bears repeating:

Surely the TA will need to learn to 'get over it'? After all, he's going to encounter an awful lot of people who won't know to call him 'Mx'.

Boiledbeetlesaurus · 25/02/2023 09:24

caraloft · 25/02/2023 09:18

I don't understand why that is unreasonable of the teacher.

Why could students not call her Ms?

Because when dealing with children, with varying levels of need or understanding being shitty with the kids because you choose to go with a different prefix from the norm is not on.

SinnerBoy · 25/02/2023 09:28

Nimbostratus100 · Yesterday 22:04

Ive certainly seen it in passports, of several nationalities.

No you haven't.

I certainly had a teacher use this title back in the seventies, and I have certainly seen it used in multiple UK schools in recent times.

Perhaps that's true, perhaps it's not and it's exceptionally unlikely that you had such a teacher, in the 70s. That linked news article, from 2017, said that they weren't using it, because it's almost unknown and that it would be meaningless to their readership.

I suspect strongly that you are fabricating a back story to support your claims.

SinnerBoy · 25/02/2023 09:32

caraloft · Today 09:18

I don't understand why that is unreasonable of the teacher. Why could students not call her Ms?

We had a new teacher in high school, when I was 12. She introduced herself as Ms and explained why, then we promptly called her Miss. She stopped insisting after a short time. We weren't actually trying to be rude, it's just that (well, I had) been conditioned to call female teachers Miss.

I don't remember any of the Mrs teachers telling us off for it. Strangely, when Mrs. Ingliss sent me to get something from the head of English, I told him that Mrs. Ingliss had sent me and when I got back, I said, "Here you go, Miss."

Itisbetter · 25/02/2023 10:19

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:22

And?

Because that’s multiple classes with multiple staff for nearly two and a half decades. Conclusion MX is not commonplace in schools.

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 10:31

So your argument is essentially “Well I’ve never heard of it…” and therefore it doesn’t exist?

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 25/02/2023 10:36

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 25/02/2023 04:19

Maybe have a day off from being a complete arse.

Yeah, we'd like it if you would do that. GrinGrinGrin

LolaSmiles · 25/02/2023 10:41

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