KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

[SapphosRock]

KJK seems to have an ongoing beef with same sex couples having fertility treatment. Why? How is this benefiting women's rights?

Is is definitely not benefiting lesbian rights.

It also appears to be attracting all the homophobes on Twitter.

What kind of donor though? Egg? or just sperm?

@EpicChaos okay you want a serious answer?

Lesbians who want children should just lie back and think of England and do it the 'normal' way.

First of all, with whom? Lesbians do not have romantic feeling for men. Are you suggesting lesbians have sex with men despite being repulsed by sex with men?

Do the men's feelings matter at all in this scenario?

Are you suggesting lesbians trick men into impregnating them? That doesn't sound very ethical.

Or are you suggesting there are plenty of nice, normal men willing to have sex with lesbians to impregnate them?

Even if this was the case (it isn't) then there would be issues around parentage. What if the man decides he wants custody of the child? Who goes on the birth certificate? Do they draw up an agreement beforehand?

Believe me, a safe, licensed fertility clinic is much less of a minefield for lesbians than lying back, thinking of England and doing it the 'normal' way.

Well why don't you ask her @SapphosRock ?

Rather than rushing here to attempt to denigrate her.

She's perfectly entitled to have that opinion and Tweet about it to all her followers and I am perfectly entitled to say why I find it homophobic. That's what this forum is for..

Honestly the purpose of this forum is not just for you to start threads criticising KJK , although a casual observer could be forgiven for thinking that, given the amount of times it happens.

Lesbians have equal access to fertility treatment in many trusts, if not all. By ‘equal access’ they mean that you must have attempted conception a number of times previously through self funded IUI or IVF, ie demonstrate some kind of infertility.

Her opinion isn't homophobic, procreation is.

It isn't infertility. It's reproductive incompatibility.

I can't remember where I heard this but my understanding was that the law changing to make ID release compulsory for donors was connected to the early DNA tests that were publicly available.

Making it illegal to remain a secret was partly because a donor could be found by other routes, and still can be this way with the knowledge you are donor conceived, the internet and some DNA of the donor (or a relative of the donor) being recorded on the right website. It meant that legally you get the info at 18 if you want it but of course you can find it earlier with the right tools and info. Women can go abroad, or send a surrogate mother abroad, and conceive elsewhere before returning to the U.K so it's not a guarantee under U.K. law but there are restrictions on imported gametes for treatment in the U.K. They must have ID release but there are ways around it with private donors and home insemination as is obvious.

And a myth at the time was that by making donor secrecy illegal in the U.K. that the number of sperm donors went down. It actually increased but only slightly, by less than 10% IIRC.

@SapphosRock She is saying two women trying to conceive isn't a fertility issue

How do two fertile women try to conceive with each other (or, two fertile men with each other)?

And, if their endeavours don't result in conception, what has gone wrong with that biological process so that one could conclude one or both of the partners are infertile?

Just pertaining to the biological facts and no sociological or social 'science' bs .

Precisely. The criteria isn’t homophobic. Two people of the same sex can’t procreate. It is not the role of the NHS to try and rectify that. Where fertility funding exists it is to attempt to assist with a medical problem that prevents conception happening as it would naturally. Two lesbians don’t have a medical problem they need help with. There is no treatment that will enable two lesbians to have a baby without sperm being added from a donor. There is no right to have a child. I find it chilling that you seem to think there is.

You are a lesbian and you haven’t heard of doing it with a syringe?

See! You're off on a tangent again! Way beyond sane/rational conversation!
Exaggeration and projection of your own thoughts onto me or anyone else, isn't a sane/rational thing to do, it's very disingenuous!
As for KJK, maybe you'd like to show us on the dolly where she hurt you? Is it cos you is jealous? because that's what it looks like.
If you don't like how she runs her ship, charter your own boat and see how many people are willing to jump aboard with you, throwing brick bats from a safe distance is rather cowardly!

This is ridiculous. Do you know how shocking and upsetting it is for couples to find out they have fertility problems? The emotional issues of coming to terms with that infertility? It’s hardly a shock for a same sex couple is it? Infertility is a biological problem not a social one.

And the normal way of producing young for mammals is for a male and female to have sex. You actually seem to be trying to suggest that biology is homophobic!

Luckily there are plenty of those. It's probably easier for lesbians to become mothers than at any other time. Fantastic!

Biology is homophobe AND a terf.

Oh and by the way, for almost 1 million years, right the way up until 1977/78 with the arrival of Louise Brown, there was only one way, the " normal way " to get pregnant!

By tweeting anti lesbian sentiments KJK is lumping all the LGBT together.

We are not the same. Lesbians having children is not the same as men using surrogates or trans men taking testosterone throughout their pregnancy.

It's a shame because I'd actually started to like KJK but that Tweet reminded me how easily she can be casually homophobic.

In the old days, gay men would have an arrangement with lesbians and do it DIY with a syringe.

Maybe it’s harder for lesbians now that men can browse catalogues of women to buy babies from.

It's a shame because I'd actually started to like KJK
You kept that quiet.

I do wonder why KJK felt the need to tweet this. If she’s against surrogacy, then say that. If she’s against donor conception be upfront about that. Gay and straight people use both. Why the particular focus on gay and lesbian people?

Well you still haven’t managed to demonstrate how the tweet, which is a simple statement of fact, is homophobic.

Can you explain why it's homophobic, Sappho? Because I'm not getting it.

Is it something like indirect discrimination, where a policy impacts some people more than others?

Stating a fact isn’t anti lesbian. I can take or leave KJK. I don’t tend to set up idols. I realise that people can agree with me on some things and disagree with me on others. The fact will always remain that same sex couples cannot procreate and no one has a right to have a child.

I do wonder why KJK felt the need to tweet this.
ASK HER!

I don’t know why she has chosen to tweet this now but I have noted myself an increase in activists referring to infertility problems for same sex couples and inequality alleged along the lines of the arguments the OP has attempted to make. There was even a CAR CRASH article in the guardian a few months ago which was the most entitled load of twaddle from gay men I have ever heard in my life. It’s important to be precise with language. Same sex couples failing to conceive is not a fertility problem, it’s a basic human biology problem.