KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

[SapphosRock]

KJK seems to have an ongoing beef with same sex couples having fertility treatment. Why? How is this benefiting women's rights?

Is is definitely not benefiting lesbian rights.

It also appears to be attracting all the homophobes on Twitter.

A couple cannot have children. If they are a female-female couple this is not a fertility issue unless they find that pregnancy does not result from sperm donation, in which case it is a fertility issue which could be investigated. The NHS will do this and it is reasonable it does.

A couple cannot have children. If they are a male-female couple it may be a fertility problem and could be investigated. The NHS will do this and it is reasonable it does.
Why is it homophobic to say this?

I agree with EndlessTea, I first thought that KJK had tweeted about only heterosexual couples should have kids but she didn't. She just stated facts about fertility. Did you do that on purpose, to make out KJK was being homophobic or something?

That doesn’t make sense. Helping an infertile person conceive is not the same as using expensive fertility services for someone who isn’t infertile.

Duh

It isn't an infertility issue: it's basic biology. Humans need a large immobile gamete and a small mobile gamete for procreation. Two individuals of the same sex produce the same gametes.

It would be an infertility issue if there were the correct type of gametes but fertilisation did not take place after the couple had been trying for a specific amount of time.

I cannot believe that I have to explain this to adults.

Have you followed any of the many suggestions to ask KJK what she means, Sappho?

See. This is thin end of the wedge stuff.

I don't think a woman who cannot conceive from her wife is a fertility problem. How on earth could it be? It takes a male and a female to conceive a child in all mammals and it is not homophobic to say so. I deeply sympathise with Lesbians who pay for fertility treatment, naturally, but having a baby is not a human right.

Lots of lesbians do it DIY by an arrangement with the father to be. No need for egg harvesting or Petri dishes.

This is where it leads to ...

Fertility inequality: making the state fund surrogacy

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/style/lgbtq-fertility-surrogacy-coverage.html

Belgium and the Netherlands have similar discussions, that health insurance should pay for commercial surrogacy, even though the Netherlands don't even allow commercial surrogacy.

And then there is even a conference from menhavingbabies.org

menhavingbabies.org/surrogacy-seminars/brussels/

Yup. Thin end of the wedge.

If we fund infertility IVF we also need to fund that used for donor conception other wise we are being discriminatory.

I disagree. The NHS exists to fix problems caused by your body not working as it should. There is not necessarily anything medically wrong with a same sex couple who can't conceive. Biology and gametes aren't homophobic.

Why would a fertile lesbian need to use ivf to conceive?

Surely insemination is all that would be necessary?

Men can’t gestate babies so regardless of your sexuality they won’t be able to do that.

As posters have pointed out, some lesbians ARE infertile, so once that’s been determined (which annoyingly, I accept, does usually mean spending quite a lot of money) then of course, lesbians should have the same rights to access NHS infertility treatments as infertile straight women and infertile bisexual women.

Which in a lot of areas, dependent on CCG, is pretty much shit-all, anyway.

I'm sorry this makes you sad, Sappho. It must be hard to hear.

People can disagree with things for fact based reasons, not just because of bigotry.

Oh dear @SapphosRock, this thread really isn’t going the way you hoped, is it? Nearly 200 posts and not one of them agreeing with you…

How about if I as a heterosexual woman with no children as I'm infertile (and a believer of the fact that that is the hand nature dealt me I just had to accept it and be childless), will that make it better?

2 men or 2 women unable to procreate with each other is not a fertility issue.

It's a biology issue as the 2 men or the 2 women could all be as fertile as hell and capable biologically of having children.

And to add her comment:

'I am totally opposed to donor conception. I don't even like IVF'

It's a fairly common opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but she is perfectly entitled to have it.

An infertile lesbian should have the same access to fertility treatment as a single straight female OR a straight infertile woman who’s male partner is infertile.

Gay men cannot gestate

Arf at “I don’t even like IVF” how ridiculous.

How do you think babies are usually/naturally conceived by heterosexual couples, precisely? By what mechanical event?
shakes head and rolls eyes skywards!

Your thread reminds me of an episode of Jeremy Kyle, many, many years ago, that i happened to see. There was a girl of about 17/18 ish, who swore blind she couldn't possibly be pregnant because she deliberately didn't go to sleep after the act!
Your seeming lack of understanding of what's being said here, seems to be about on the same level as that, either that, or you're just looking for an argument???

'I am totally opposed to donor conception. I don't even like IVF' It's a fairly common opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but she is perfectly entitled to have it.

She's perfectly entitled to have that opinion and Tweet about it to all her followers and I am perfectly entitled to say why I find it homophobic. That's what this forum is for.

Can you elaborate on why you think disliking IVF is ridiculous?

Genuinely interested - Big Fertility is a massive ethical minefield and I find talking it out to be useful for changing/forming my own opinions.

Obvs in an ideal world we’d all have the exact number of babies we wanted (including zero babies) at the exact age we wanted them in a coparenting situation of our choice that happened to be ideal for child raising, but as it’s not an ideal world we’re all muddling through.

(I usually get oodles of ads for private IVF/donating eggs after posting on one of these threads).

Why is that opinion homophobic? Given that KJK has not singled out same sex couples in that statement, the assumption there is that she means universally for anyone. Whether gay or straight or bi.

No it isn't. This is the sex and gender board dealing with gender politics, not fertility issues.

Of course you're entitled to believe whatever you like, Sapphos, just as we're entitled to question why you chose a subtweet of KJK for your op rather than the tweet itself. At best it was misleading.