KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

[SapphosRock]

KJK seems to have an ongoing beef with same sex couples having fertility treatment. Why? How is this benefiting women's rights?

Is is definitely not benefiting lesbian rights.

It also appears to be attracting all the homophobes on Twitter.

That’s not infertility 😂 Two men can be perfectly fertile and still not make a baby together, because thats nature. It’s the same reason a sock doesn’t get pregnant every time a man wanks into one!

OMG can you imagine all the pregnant socks sitting around and popping out more socks. Possibly the only thing that could make my house even more of a mess.

As others have said already, what KJK has said is fact.

Both women in a same sex relationship could be perfectly fecund, but they won't be conceiving any children together as neither of them produce sperm. Nothing to do with their fertility, just circumstance.

My child is donor conceived and there is nothing wrong with my fertility. They're totally different things.

And I don't think my choice of how I conceived my child should be state funded either. It was my choice (and one that I know quite a lot of people don't agree with). And that's fine.

It doesn't mean they're homophobic or that they think single women or lesbian and gay couples shouldn't be parents either.

Have you ever asked her whether she meant 'sperm donation', Sappho?

Honestly, we have discussed this before. Have you since asked her? And have you asked whether she is specifically talking about 'anonymous' sperm donation or sperm donation where there is knowledge of the male parent or plans to allow knowledge as an adult?

Have you engaged with her about this?

Because as we have been through this before, where is the evidence she means sperm donation as well? Or is this just more speculation from people who have a sin page still published on their website about this?

I’m wondering what it is you think “fertility” means? Do you think a single woman who wants a baby outside of a relationship has fertility issues? If lesbian couples have “fertility issues” (in absence of any medical problems that might prevent them from becoming pregnant) presumably you must also think this applies to single childless women. Or is it the being in a relationship with “the person you love” that creates the infertility?

This is a women's rights issue. A really important one.

Now I'm really confused. Infertility is a woman's rights issue how? Men can be infertile and there is no human right to have a child.

It's not a woman's rights issue, it's not even a human rights issue.

The question about access to fertility treatment for same sex couples or single men and women could have been posed without using KJ's tweet.

Oh, come on, now! You can agree with people on one thing and disagree with them on many others. They're not mutually exclusive!

The tweet is clearly not particularly friendly towards homosexual couples (of either sex)! In fact I find it quite reactionary.

I'm not even referring to the fertility treatment bit - it's the sweeping statement that children are best off (zero ifs and buts) growing up with one mother and one father in a heterosexual relationship!

It is rather offensive!

Now, I absolutely do believe in the right to cause offense, so: more power to her in that respect! But I happen to vehemently disagree, and it's not somehow "pro trans lobby" or anything to not defend her on such stuff. Or the abortion statements, for that matter!

Lesbians in the comments agree with her. She's being factual.

Her tweet is obviously factually correct. Regardless of her intent, it is also obvious that her tweet is going to be jumped on by homophobes. Presumably that’s a risk she’s ok to accept.

Er… @SapphosRock do you realise the hoops “straight” couples have to jump through to get fertility treatment? It’s not just “routinely offered for free”. Seriously. 🙄. The tests, the treatments, the counselling, then put on an extremely long waiting list. And if one of you has a child already, even if it’s not together… forget about it. And then you get 2 or 3 attempts if you’re lucky.

Which tweet are you talking about because you appear to be conflating JJKs tweet with the person retweeting her?

Yes this would be artificially assisted reproduction rather than infertility.

For 2 Males this means surrogacy
For 2 females sperm donor and iui or ivf.

KjK is quite right.

The law dictates that any donor child in the UK (NHS or private) can access details of their donor when they turn 18.

Only if they are donor conceived with a donor who has ID release. Check out the donor conception board for more on this.

There are children living in the U.K. who will not have access to that information by law, they may never know who donated gametes to conceive them. It relies on ID release and the laws of where the gametes originated from.

I agree. It's a good job that the tweet you are referring to wasn't posted by Kelly Jay. I hope we can also agree that as she didn't write it she is not responsible for the homophobia contained within it.

Through a clinic

A U.K. clinic yes. I recommend the BBC Podcast called Male Order for arrangements made with sperm donors outside of HFEA regulated clinics.

From what I know of her she is very strong on stating things that are fact, without dancing around them.

You referring to her as being “tone deaf” however I suspect she would view it as just stating a fact.

I think if people are upset at being told that two people of the same sex can’t biologically reproduce then the issue is with them and the way they are dealing with reality. Most people simply accept this.

Yes @SapphosRock - why have you included a quote tweet in your OP?

Really it's a bit pathetic of you

I’m wondering what it is you think “fertility” means? Do you think a single woman who wants a baby outside of a relationship has fertility issues? If lesbian couples have “fertility issues” (in absence of any medical problems that might prevent them from becoming pregnant) presumably you must also think this applies to single childless women. Or is it the being in a relationship with “the person you love” that creates the infertility?

I am talking about gay equality. If you support lesbians having equal rights then you would support the NHS treating them the same as heterosexual couples.

The NHS does not offer surrogacy and I don't believe it funds IVF for single women. It does fund donor sperm IUI and IVF for male factor infertility in straight couples. Therefore if you believe lesbians should have equal rights the NHS should fund donor spend IUi and IVF for lesbian couples.

Therefore two women being unable to procreate IS a fertility issue.

Which may have been the intent. I find the whole thing very suspicious.

Argue with her in good faith. I don't agree with everything she says. I don't agree with everything anyone says, including myself.

I'm very sorry to hear this, reoccurring miscarriage must be horrific and exhausting. No infertile/miscarriages are caused by being same sex attracted and the methods of getting pregnant available to you are obviously more expensive and less impulsive than a heterosexual relationship.

Yes lesbians have to go through all that too. The difference is straight couples are offered between 1 and 3 rounds of IVF on the NHS. Lesbians have to fund it themselves.

I am talking about gay equality. If you support lesbians having equal rights then you would support the NHS treating them the same as heterosexual couples.

Does the NHS give free fertility treatment to hetroexual couples who don't have a diagnosed fertility problem? If the answer is no then you are being treated equally.

It's just a fact she's stated that technically is correct.

This^^

As I clearly said very quickly in the follow up post, I was referring to treatment through the NHS or a UK fertility clinic. Where, by law, in the UK the donor has to be ID release. That doesn’t depend on the country the donor came from - for example, sperm can be donated in the USA without being ID release, but that cannot be purchased in the UK for use through the NHS or a fertility clinic.

The post I was replying to suggested heavily that the NHS could provide treatment using anonymous sperm. That is not correct.

I can assure you I’ve spent plenty of time on the donor conception board.