KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

[SapphosRock]

KJK seems to have an ongoing beef with same sex couples having fertility treatment. Why? How is this benefiting women's rights?

Is is definitely not benefiting lesbian rights.

It also appears to be attracting all the homophobes on Twitter.

Definition of 'fertile' - (of a person, animal, or plant) able to conceive young or produce seed.

So two women, who are ABLE to conceive do not have a fertility issue. The thing that is stopping them from having a baby is not their FERTILITY, but the lack of sperm.

So they have a reproductive issue, which has multiple ways of being solved, and no one is saying they shouldn't be able to solve this.

But, factually, people are saying this is NOT a fertility issue

Its quite simple logic.

Infertility is seen as an illness because it means the body is not working properly. It is lacking in health. The same way that someone whose heart isn't working properly, or digestive system.

This is why they are considered eligible for medical care. The goal of treatment, in the first order, is actually to solve the problem, restore the body to health. If that isn't possible, the second goal is to find some other way to accomplish what should happen naturally, like having a pacemaker or dialysis.

People whose reproductive organs work fine are not generally eligible for medical treatment, at least not on the public dime.

It is, of course, possible for a gay woman to have fertility issues.

Many resort to using the sperm of a male friend due to cost, but if it doesn't work and it becomes clear that the woman cannot actually conceive then, IMO, she is just as entitled to IVF as a straight woman.

Agreed

@BreadInCaptivity @RufustheFloralmissingreindeer
According to this board the lesbian couple just need to find a man to have sex with and lie back and think of England.
rubbish
thats an outright lie

Just for the purposes of being clear and honest, it was I that brought that idea into the discussion, not telling people to go and do that per se but pointing out that it could be done and indeed, i have been led to believe, over the years, that it has been done. The point being, that the missing ingredient for baby making between a fertile lesbian couple can be provided by a male friend possibly, not a medical team.

The post i made...

EpicChaos · Yesterday 16:09
@SapphosRock " Two lesbians having IUI or IVF is totally different and is a fertility issue. "
No it isn't! Not unless one or both have a medical problem that stops them from conceiving and let's be honest, they could quite well conceive without undergoing a medical procedure if they chose to close their eyes and think of England, while they do things the normal way, if they are desperate for a child. Either that, or the old turkey baster! They do not necessarily have to go to the expense, time, trouble and pain of using a fertility clinic and associated medical personnel.
It is only a fertility issue if one, or both are infertile!

a fertile lesbian could conceive anytime she wants if she had sex with a man.

So offensive.

What's more offensive is you lying about what KJK said.

The point was that they don't want to do that - they don't want to have sex with men.

Stop half listening just to wind yourself up.

You are cherry highlighting statements out of context to make them look offensive instead of highlighting offensive statements.

@SapphosRock you are equating being gay to a body malfunction. You want to paint reality as homophobic but you not wanting to face reality is in itself homophobic.

@SapphosRock are you saying being a lesbian is a health condition that requires medical intervention?

No I am saying lesbians couples who wish to conceive have a fertility issue.

Just as straight couples who cannot conceive have a fertility issue.

I know someone will shout 'Having a child is not a right!' But I don't hear them shouting that to the straight women on the IVF board.

Lesbians face the same heartache and uncertainty facing fertility treatment as straight women.

And saying 'just have sex with a man' is very VERY offensive.

Just as it would be to say to a straight women with an infertile husband 'just have sex with another man and stop moaning. You are not infertile'

I think people are just explaining the mechanics of reproduction and why it is my a fertility issue.

Lesbians do not have any rights to any man's sperm.

Straight women do not have any rights to any man's sperm

Infertile men do not have any rights to another man's sperm

None. This is not a fertility issue.

Err...

Not having children could be a fertility issue or it could be a logistics issue.

Stating that all lesbians are infertile is homophobic.

A fertile woman in a relationship with an infertile man is not iinfertile. A single fertile woman who doesn't want children is not infertile.

No one is asking anyone to have sex. But if you want a child, egg has to meet sperm at some point - even if it is not your egg or your sperm.

This is honestly not complex.

How is babby formed?!?!

Halp - KJK is oppressing me.

Again.

Sappho, do you think that straight couples who don't have sex have a fertility issue?

I think you've been living in a self selecting group of people who think like you.

People who disagree aren't homophobic. They just don't agree with you.

@SapphosRock if you are saying all lesbians are infertile and therefore require medical intervention to achieve pregnancy, then you are saying logically being a lesbian is an illness. Healthy people do not require medical intervention do they?

as to your remarks about straight couples, do you have any idea about the invasive and sometimes very painful tests those couples have to go though to prove they are infertile before they will even be considered for treatment. And if they are proved to be fertile they are refused. Is that what you want for lesbians? And if the lesbian is assessed to be fertile and refused? Are you saying lesbians should be treated any different from heterosexual people? Why?

If they are trying to procreate then yes, they have a fertility issue. They also have a much simpler solution than lesbians.

So not having sex resulting in no baby...is a fertility issue?

Can you imagine 'Me and my wife have been trying for a baby for 20 years and nothing'...'Ok, how often are you trying'...'Every day'...'Oh, so you have sex every day?'...'Oh no we never have sex'. 'Erm...Oh boy'.

I don't necessarily agree with everything she says, but KJK is right here. It's not a fertility issue.

But neither of them need fertility treatment. They are both fertile.

Why the hell would the NHS spend money on treating people who are fertile?

Why would we spend money on a health intervention for people who are healthy?

I can't lay hands on a dr at the moment and I have an actual health issue that I cannot resolve without medical intervention. The drugs and tests are not available, I don't have the expertise, to treat myself without one.

I really resent your sense of entitlement to scarce resources to treat something you could sort out yourself.

But you can't "try to procreate" together. It's not like a straight couple trying for years and not succeeding without IVF: that's a fertility issue.
A lesbian couple can use a sperm donor and one of them can give birth. That's not a fertility issue unless there are problems conceiving .
A gay couple (two males) can only use a surrogate or adopt. I used to be comfortable about surrogacy. I'm not now. A gay couple should adopt and give a family to a child that needs a loving home.

Your inability to budge on this, your lack of any interest in the possibility other people may have a point puts you in that category of obsessed blinkered people I don't bother to engage with. It's a waste of breath.

You carry on weeping for your hard life. I'm past listening.