Colleague discussing the "benefits" of FGM 🤢

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A colleague has recently moved from a country in Africa. He was telling another colleague about the benefits of FGM. He was complaining how it's getting banned everywhere when it prevents women being unfaithful, getting raped while their husbands are away. He also said when women wear trousers it can rub on the clit causing excitement. I got really upset about the conversation and said the thought of someone holding their daughter down and inflicting that on her is barbaric. I then walked away I can't believe people believe this in 2023 and we have people in this country who believe in it. I want to report him but I'm scared of being called racist.

Has anyone dealt with this kind of thing? Or what the procedure is ?

This.

No. It's not just "an opinion." Having this conversation in the hearing of OP, including ridiculous innuendo about clits rubbing up against trouser seams, constitutes overt sexual harassment against OP and any other women in the vicinity. This absolutely needs reporting to HR, it's vile.

Don't be so catastrophising. He's a vile man and his opinions are downright repulsive. But it's not and neither should it be illegal to voice them.

We lose far more as a society when some people feel the need to involve police and other authorities, because someone said something loathsome, than from the actual things he said.

I suppose it's possible he could be considered to be encouraging or assisting an offence, if he intended to change people's minds about the "benefits" of FGM and make them more likely to consider inflicting it on someone.

There are no benefits for FGM. Young girls /women have the right to be left intact. This guy needs reported his views are warped. Clitoris rubbing on trousers wtaf he's a lunatic.

This kind of opinion/belief is very common from people from Sudan/Somalia where nearly all women are cut. Even women hold the attitude that it makes them better and these beliefs go back thousands of years. It’s hard for westerners to understand it. I wouldn’t report it as it’s far better to have these conversations and challenge these beliefs rather than they be kept within the community.

He is advocating a criminal offence. It needs to be reported to the police. Attitudes lasting a thousand years don't change from talking about it (it's been talked about and they know most people disagree with their practice) and presenting arguments but being faced with prison for a criminal offence tends to have a correcting effect. (Also what is he doing talking about FGM at work - he is possibly gaslighting women so needs to be reported to HR.) And I am a Westerner and I understand FGM perfectly well as a way of controlling women's sexuality and also giving pleasure to men without pleasing the woman (and it's no surprise that women support it and carry it out, women in Waristan support punishment rape of a family's daughters or wives for an offence against a more important family).

Grammarnut I really don’t think the police will be interested in a thought crime.

If you work in statutory services such as NHS or education, you are trained on FGM and that you must report it.
Similarly with PREVENT and concerns around potential radicalisation.
There may not be the same requirements in private sector, but those calling it a thought crime- yes, we are asked to report this type of thinking and belief as it can lead to acts that are criminal or unethical.

Well done for reporting, OP

I'd hope that he gets flagged as a safeguarding risk.

I'll be flamed for this, but I really don't think we should allow people like these to have work visas and certainly not to work in healthcare. (There are those below saying how this is a cultural issue which means we should go light on it and try to keep "discussion" going, which is frankly naive in the extreme.)

It doesn't matter we work in healthcare there are no health benefits to FGM. Part of our role is health promotion our patients are 99.99 percent white British in a rural area. If he goes to a female service (many have history of abuse) or a place where are there high levels of psychosis. Talking about FGM, JuJu/Black magic is going to make the patient more poorly. He also has a daughter. Maybe he does need reeducation talking about cutting clitoris off in front of western women is offensive. We do not allow it here.

I agree. This person should not be working in healthcare. I wouldn't want them treating me or any of my family.

I wonder if the 'rape prevention theory' is rooted in the fourth and most brutal type of fgm. In Hibo'c cut she describes how she was completely sewn shut and essentially on a wedding night a woman's husband essentially reopens the wound with his penis (sorry couldn't think of a less horrible way to say it, it is horrible).

Thus if a woman was raped, it would be provable as there'd be obvious physical evidence. Presumably as it's clearly known as so painful even within the culture (again, Hibo describes it t as a known secret in Cut) even the most patriarchal society would understand no woman would seek out that amount of pain so it must have been forced.
So more of a deterrent to getting caught than doing the act.

And safeguarding doesn't mean you weigh up which things to report in case it's nothing/judge/silly/racist whatever. Safeguarding is a net to catch all the niggles. It is much better you report all the nothings and miss a something. Safeguarding carries no judgement and a report deemed not a risk would never go anywhere anyway so no need to fret about whether to report. Hr, safeguarding lead and police need to know. Then you can step away and let people do their jobs in the knowledge that you have done your duty.

Perhaps i'm just cynical, but i don't think HR, SS, or the police will give a toss about this.

The police don't even investigate rape properly, so this will be low down on their to-do list.

bloody hell OP (have not RTFT) get that shit shut down. It is firstly inappropriate for him to talk about that at work. Get HR onto it.

For almost a thousand years Han families in China broke all the bones in their 5 year old daughters’ feet so that they would have the “right” shape, be marriageable, desirable, etc.

Just because it’s “cultural” and been going on for a long time time don’t make it good, doesn’t even make it neutral, doesn’t mean people from other cultures can’t say “that’s wrong.”

And yeah, I don’t understand what would make a mother hold down her little girl while someone cuts off her clitoris or breaks all the bones in her feet. But I don’t think that there’s any reason that could be given that would make me think it was a reasonable action.

Just to be clear, I don't care that it's cultural (t'was another poster) nor do I in any way condone or tolerate it. FGM is an abhorrent crime that should be completely eradicated.

My only problem was with reporting to authorities an in general the catastrophising of what is in essence a thought crime. While what that man said is utterly vile, he wasn't actually doing anything wrong.

To pretend that someone merely spouting a despicable opinion the one time is somehow harassment, a safeguarding threat, or as someone who really grasped for straws claimed, incitement, is an assault on our freedom. People should be free to voice opinions, as vile as they may be.

If it was debating club ok but it's healthcare we are there to promote health. FGM has no health benefits , it's also a crime here. Also discussing this in front of women can be very distressing.

Yes Crutcher, sorry! I meant to address Headstone specifically but forgot.

The thought crime aspect is interesting. I don’t think he should be reported to police, but I think it is eminently possible, given his positive view of FGM, that his daughter may be in danger.

Safeguarding means any possibility is reported. It's a catch all net to filter out abuse, not a snare to catch out thought crime.

You always, always report. You don't analyses, investigate or lead yourself. You don't rationalize or contextualise.

You report and that report becomes a puzzle piece for people trained to look at and investigate the whole picture. If it's not a concern. It's dropped. If it is it's pursued.

Can't believe people are saying don't report. Does that mean if you worked in a nursery environment and a member of staff was talking about how they felt 'MAP' (to use that vile term) was a choice and that young children could make sexual choices you'd be
'Meh its just an opinion'?

The OP has already reported it, and i bet you dollars to doughnuts that sod all is done about it.

I think he's a menace and should lose his job, quite frankly. He has no business working as a HCP. He should be ashamed to agree with a practice like FGM, and to defend it, in public is simply, mind boggling.

I would report him to HR and report him to the police. I'd be offended by what I heard. What a scum bag.

As well as reporting safeguarding concerns please make a formal complaint about his conduct to HR.

This kind of "discussion" is unacceptable in the workplace and you as a woman should not have to be made uncomfortable by these abhorrent views. This isn't "the thought police" it is appropriate behaviour in the workplace. He should be subject to disciplinary measures.

FGM is not a thought crime, it's an actual crime.