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Original poster

Roald Dahl books have been edited to remove the word "female" along with other edits.

374 replies

GoChasingWaterfalls · 19/02/2023 08:39

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/18/roald-dahl-books-rewritten-to-remove-language-deemed-offensive?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It's literary terrorism.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 19/02/2023 09:44

I think they’re trying to avoid that dehumanising way that certain (often older, golf club bore-type) men talk about women as females.

Dahl chose the word 'female' because he wanted to dehumanise the character. It's Mrs Trunchbull, ffs! She's a monster. He did it on purpose.

The fact that they can't understand that makes them completely unsuitable to be anywhere near any kind of literature, let alone sanitising it on our behalf.

PortiasBiscuit · 19/02/2023 09:44

You lot have FAR too much time on your hands.

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:44

@PortiasBiscuit Why?

Makemetry · 19/02/2023 09:44

Simple. Teach children that attitudes change over time and texts should be read with a critical eye.

Its not that simple though. Teenagers will want to know why a book that has been written by an author they perceive as racist should be on the school curriculum. It’s one thing to read a book as a historical document but it’s another to have it held up as a great work of art. It’s the statue argument all over again.

beastlyslumber · 19/02/2023 09:46

watchfulwishes · 19/02/2023 09:41

I said 'from the estate's POV' because commercially the books are going to become increasingly problematic in terms of income generation.

I am not personally that concerned about language change in stories, but the use of the word 'sanitising' was not a compliment.

The estate's interest =/= my interests.

Try not to get so aggressive, you know nothing about me. It is better to not be so personal.

Show quote history

I wasn't aggressive or personal. I said I found the view you expressed abhorrent and illiterate. Not you.

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 09:46

plumduck · 19/02/2023 08:46

References to “female” characters have disappeared. Miss Trunchbull in Matilda, once a “most formidable female”, is now a “most formidable woman”.

What's wrong with that?

  1. The author did not write woman he wrote female
  2. Presumably 'woman' is used so as not to alienate men in dresses

You can't see anything wrong with that?

MarshaBradyo · 19/02/2023 09:47

PortiasBiscuit · 19/02/2023 09:44

You lot have FAR too much time on your hands.

Why? I mean you’ve clicked on thread to post that rather than say what you think.

Besides if people on radio / media find it worth discussing I don’t see why mn should desist

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 09:48

Nicedayout22 · 19/02/2023 09:34

Bought box set of 16 Roald Dahl last night because of this (have children in the family who'll be if an age for these stories,who are being raised with the intent if giving them enough critical thinking that they can place anything off in there context of the time, but still enjoy the good bits: you know,like I thought grown ups were meant to be able to do) . After reading this,just bought the c s Lewis Narina box set for exactly the same reasons. It's memory holing,and cultural ignorance to changes others work,let alone well loved and established works that have had cultural impact.

1005 this

beastlyslumber · 19/02/2023 09:48

PortiasBiscuit · 19/02/2023 09:44

You lot have FAR too much time on your hands.

You're the one posting on a thread that you apparently think is irrelevant or unimportant.

Nicedayout22 · 19/02/2023 09:49

Makemetry · 19/02/2023 09:44

Simple. Teach children that attitudes change over time and texts should be read with a critical eye.

Its not that simple though. Teenagers will want to know why a book that has been written by an author they perceive as racist should be on the school curriculum. It’s one thing to read a book as a historical document but it’s another to have it held up as a great work of art. It’s the statue argument all over again.

If teenagers looking for 100% purity with modern views are now the arbiters of what is acceptable art and literature,we might as well burn the lot: human culture and civilization has gone in many ways,with multifaceted human beings in it, for tens of thousands of years. Trying to create a year zero is both arrogant and immature, and should scare the shit out of anyone paying any attention.

Persephonegoddess · 19/02/2023 09:49

How would ppl feel about the same thing happening to the bible or religious books? Are they next?

watchfulwishes · 19/02/2023 09:50

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:43

You should be concerned because once that road is built we are in trouble.

Show quote history

I think it is naive to think the road needs to be built. The road is unchanged, from the dawn of time humans have been informed and misinformed. Those in power have always had this power.

We are increasingly exposed to fake news, rewritten news. Conspiracy theories are all over, spread on social media.

Dahl's books are a commercial product, of course they'll get updated if the owner thinks they need it.

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:50

Oh we’ve got status destroyers in here. I’m out.

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:50

Statue

ReedRite · 19/02/2023 09:50

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 09:46

  1. The author did not write woman he wrote female
  2. Presumably 'woman' is used so as not to alienate men in dresses

You can't see anything wrong with that?

Show quote history

Yes and also, changing female to woman ruins the alliteration Dahl deliberately crafted.

This shortchanges children, who would otherwise be taking in good, literary writing. Instead they’re left with leaden prose.

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 09:51

PortiasBiscuit · 19/02/2023 09:44

You lot have FAR too much time on your hands.

This is evocative of the "keep mumsnet out of politics" placard at that rally where some Labour MPs didn't know (🤔) they were platform sharing with a convicted violent offender, or that the crowd was chanting "fuck Keir Starmer"

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:51

And teenagers better be dead certain they are right about things when they preach on erasing history and words and the past.

Blueberry40 · 19/02/2023 09:52

I’m genuinely confused here. Why is it not okay to use the word female anymore? Will using the word female be offensive to certain people?

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:53

watchfulwishes · 19/02/2023 09:50

I think it is naive to think the road needs to be built. The road is unchanged, from the dawn of time humans have been informed and misinformed. Those in power have always had this power.

We are increasingly exposed to fake news, rewritten news. Conspiracy theories are all over, spread on social media.

Dahl's books are a commercial product, of course they'll get updated if the owner thinks they need it.

Show quote history

You have completely missed the point. But thanks for the patronising post.

watchfulwishes · 19/02/2023 09:53

Persephonegoddess · 19/02/2023 09:49

How would ppl feel about the same thing happening to the bible or religious books? Are they next?

There are many versions of the bible.

Intheflicker · 19/02/2023 09:53

I will never read Roald Dahl to my child anyway, they have a nasty vicious streak that I don't want her to emulate. (Without even getting into the lesbophobic coding of Miss Trunchball.)

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 09:53

Also I am astounded that people posting on here think that the word 'female' is in any way offensive! I am female and proud of it. TRAs would have this word disappear - you are assisting them!

And as for those saying that literature should be 'sanitised'...I truly have no fucking words. Keep yourselves busy and get cracking on the old testament as that could take a while.

converseandjeans · 19/02/2023 09:54

I've just looked up definition of woman and apparently it changed in the dictionary in 2022 to include someone wishing to identify as a woman who wasn't necessarily assigned female at birth. To be classed as female you apparently need to be able to produce eggs. So even the Cambridge & Oxford dictionaries have been amended.

Meterry · 19/02/2023 09:54

@watchfulwishes And in case you didn’t know the owner is dead.

beastlyslumber · 19/02/2023 09:54

Dahl's books are a commercial product, of course they'll get updated if the owner thinks they need it.

They are not a "commercial product", they are works of art. They don't need to be "updated" or "sanitised". Books are not like washing machines or suitcases. They are gifts from someone's inner world, and they take hard work and mystery to bring into the world. You don't have to like them, you don't have to buy them or read them. But "updating" them is vandalism and censorship and it's utterly fascist.