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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Roald Dahl books have been edited to remove the word "female" along with other edits.

374 replies

GoChasingWaterfalls · 19/02/2023 08:39

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/18/roald-dahl-books-rewritten-to-remove-language-deemed-offensive?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It's literary terrorism.

OP posts:
Emotionalsupportviper · 22/02/2023 18:46

CandlelightGlow · 22/02/2023 11:50

They're not rewriting the book then? They can think what they like really can't they, if the narrative doesn't say that then it's just an interpretation, no more or less valid than anyone else's. Sounds a pretty regressive if you ask me, but it's not rewriting.

They can think what they like if they find it comforting to live in an illusion.

However pushing it as Terry Pratchett's intention is another thing altogether.

Pratchett was one of the most tolerant individuals imaginable, I think, but he knew what a woman was, his characters knew what women were, and his characters knew what they were.

"Transing" literary characters and historical figures is pure w*nkery.

ResisterRex · 24/02/2023 13:27

REPENT MOTHERFUCKERS

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64759118

Not us, but Penguin

ArabellaScott · 24/02/2023 13:35

Interesting. I wonder whether the original, horrible awful texts will sell better than the new Improved GoodSpeak texts?

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/02/2023 14:35

ResisterRex · 24/02/2023 13:27

REPENT MOTHERFUCKERS

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64759118

Not us, but Penguin

His Dark Materials author Philip Pullman told BBC Radio 4 that Dahl's books "should be allowed to fade away"

Ha, ha!

Pullman would love it if that happened. (It won't)

EsmaCannonball · 24/02/2023 14:45

ArabellaScott · 24/02/2023 13:35

Interesting. I wonder whether the original, horrible awful texts will sell better than the new Improved GoodSpeak texts?

I'm glad that the uncensored books will still be published but I'm wondering if they will be a more limited print run, more difficult to get hold of and more expensive. Meanwhile the bowdlerized versions will be readily available and cheaper and also bought en masse by schools, libraries and institutions here and in America, enabling the publisher and censorship organisations to claim that sanitised books are what the public really want.

CandlelightGlow · 24/02/2023 15:37

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/02/2023 14:35

His Dark Materials author Philip Pullman told BBC Radio 4 that Dahl's books "should be allowed to fade away"

Ha, ha!

Pullman would love it if that happened. (It won't)

Pullman is just making the exact same argument that many have made here - if the book is really so offensive, it will fade into obscurity by itself; it doesn't need to be rewritten.

I'm falling on the side of believing this was a publicity stunt of some kind/attempt at revival of interest. Look at how many people said they'd rush out and by the collective works while they were available! And now no change....

ResisterRex · 24/02/2023 15:51

I'm falling on the side of believing this was a publicity stunt of some kind/attempt at revival of interest.

I thought this too and I would agree, except for two things. One, that they issued another statement just test saying 5 and 6 year olds read Dahl alone:

“A spokesperson for the publishing house told The Bookseller: “Children as young as five or six read Roald Dahl books and often they are the first stories they will read independently.

“With that comes a significant responsibility as it might be the first time they are navigating written content without a parent, teacher or carer.””

dailytelegraph.pressreader.com/article/281513640341592

That indicates a lack of understanding of KS1 reading levels. (Unless they are basing children's abilities on Matilda...)

Two, the publishing industry does seem to have a problem. There are now quite a few accounts of authors running into significant problems, and of writers of non-fiction being told their fact-based analyses are problematic.

beastlyslumber · 24/02/2023 16:38

Meanwhile the bowdlerized versions will be readily available and cheaper and also bought en masse by schools, libraries and institutions here and in America, enabling the publisher and censorship organisations to claim that sanitised books are what the public really want.

Are they publishing the censored versions alongside the originals? I got the impression that they were ditching the censors altogether - hope that's right!

IcakethereforeIam · 24/02/2023 16:52

It would not surprise me if the uncensored versions will be in some kind of premium boxed set. I think it's a cash grab.

If they truly believed the new versions were a necessary improvement, they would stick to their principles. They aren't, so they don't have any.

ResisterRex · 24/02/2023 17:23

Curious. They've gone from 5 and 6yos are so smart, they read Dahl alone AND they need help "navigating content" (Hmm) to this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/24/roald-dahl-publisher-gives-ground-woke-changes-caused-storm/

""Roald Dahl’s fantastic books are often the first stories young children will read independently, and taking care for the imaginations and fast-developing minds of young readers is both a privilege and a responsibility.

“We also recognise the importance of keeping Dahl’s classic texts in print. By making both Puffin and Penguin versions available, we are offering readers the choice to decide how they experience Roald Dahl’s magical, marvellous stories.”"

Young children. Not KS1 kids, on Oxford levels (probably) 5&6.

And I wonder what "archive material" will be deemed "relevant", and who will make that decision?

"The publishing company confirmed 17 Dahl titles would also be published under the Penguin logo, including archive material relevant to each of the stories, and will be available later this year."

Because this is how it started:

"Puffin previously insisted the changes to the books were "minimal""_ despite them running into the hundreds – and said the stories remained “unchanged”."

And it's gets more twisted and more murky, with each knee jerk press release. I think serious questions need to be asked about this.

ArabellaScott · 24/02/2023 17:35

EsmaCannonball · 24/02/2023 14:45

I'm glad that the uncensored books will still be published but I'm wondering if they will be a more limited print run, more difficult to get hold of and more expensive. Meanwhile the bowdlerized versions will be readily available and cheaper and also bought en masse by schools, libraries and institutions here and in America, enabling the publisher and censorship organisations to claim that sanitised books are what the public really want.

🙄

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/02/2023 18:33

CandlelightGlow · 24/02/2023 15:37

Pullman is just making the exact same argument that many have made here - if the book is really so offensive, it will fade into obscurity by itself; it doesn't need to be rewritten.

I'm falling on the side of believing this was a publicity stunt of some kind/attempt at revival of interest. Look at how many people said they'd rush out and by the collective works while they were available! And now no change....

If Pullman wasn't so "woke", I would agree with this.

Treaclemine · 24/02/2023 18:46

Discussed on LBC with Michael Rosen.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/02/2023 19:00

And having the piss ripped out of it on the News Quiz.

(They also had a bit of banter re Scots trans stuff which had me laughing rather than swearing at the radio, yes, on prime time bbc!)

mach2 · 25/02/2023 09:36

It's all utter shit. I read all sorts as a child that contained all the "isms" that they go on about these days. I have my flaws but I didn't turn into a woman-hating racist or some damaged jellyfish. Sensible adult voices said "it's only a story" and provided the sort of guidance a child needs to contextualise what they read or watch.

There is damage, but it was mostly from bullying peers at school, not books. They were my refuge.

ResisterRex · 25/02/2023 10:04

Self-appointed people, vandalising books to accommodate what they think we should think. How progressive:

Inside the group of ‘inclusion ambassadors’ behind Roald Dahl edits

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8243434c-b470-11ed-abc9-a9456bea4494?shareToken=aa783a0efa2dcc47994f38789c7a474d

fluffylampbear · 25/02/2023 16:46

Another interesting and relevant link to this story here:

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/25/roald-dahl-threatened-publisher-with-enormous-crocodile-if-they-changed-his-words

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 25/02/2023 16:49

mach2 · 25/02/2023 09:36

It's all utter shit. I read all sorts as a child that contained all the "isms" that they go on about these days. I have my flaws but I didn't turn into a woman-hating racist or some damaged jellyfish. Sensible adult voices said "it's only a story" and provided the sort of guidance a child needs to contextualise what they read or watch.

There is damage, but it was mostly from bullying peers at school, not books. They were my refuge.

Agree with all this. What happens to critical faculty if everything you see and everything you hear is sanitised and homogenous?

EsmaCannonball · 25/02/2023 17:38

I've been thinking about this in relation to that book written by Naomi Wolf where she erroneously claimed thousands of men were executed in Victorian Britain for the crime of being gay. I'm amazed that it got past an editor, and everyone else at the publishing company who would have read it before publication, without anyone thinking 'Huh?' I can only guess that the book was deemed ideologically pure and said what people wanted to have happened so no-one wanted to question its batshittedness. The other alternative is the calibre of education of those in the publishing industry isn't what it used to be.

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 17:46

The other alternative is the calibre of education of those in the publishing industry isn't what it used to be.

And those in charge are taking orders from junior members of staff. Who certainly aren't of the calibre that juniors would have been in the past.

ResisterRex · 25/02/2023 18:05

fluffylampbear · 25/02/2023 16:46

Can't believe this is in the Graun! Great story they've got hold of as well.

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 20:00

I could well believe that Dahl would come back to haunt them!

DdraigGoch · 25/02/2023 21:23

ArabellaScott · 24/02/2023 13:35

Interesting. I wonder whether the original, horrible awful texts will sell better than the new Improved GoodSpeak texts?

If the Famous Five is anything to go by, they'll pull the newspeak ones after a few years due to poor sales.

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 22:27

I enjoyed Lionel Shriver's contribution: www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/25/what-if-sensitivity-readers-came-for-my-novels/

EsmaCannonball · 25/02/2023 23:19

The Times has reported that people who have ebooks of Roald Dahl works had their copies automatically updated to the new censored versions. Chilling. I wonder if Puffin will restore the originals to their readers?

I'm glad I buy most of my books in a lovely non-profit second-hand bookshop.