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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Roald Dahl books have been edited to remove the word "female" along with other edits.

374 replies

GoChasingWaterfalls · 19/02/2023 08:39

www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/18/roald-dahl-books-rewritten-to-remove-language-deemed-offensive?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It's literary terrorism.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 23:38

That's so sinister. I love my kindle but for this reason I want physical copies of all the good books.

Thelnebriati · 25/02/2023 23:49

I stopped using Kindle after they deleted all of my ebook collection (to change the way you use the app), including hundreds that were in epub format that had nothing to do with Kindle or Amazon. I still don't know how they got away with it.

DemiColon · 26/02/2023 00:22

mach2 · 25/02/2023 09:36

It's all utter shit. I read all sorts as a child that contained all the "isms" that they go on about these days. I have my flaws but I didn't turn into a woman-hating racist or some damaged jellyfish. Sensible adult voices said "it's only a story" and provided the sort of guidance a child needs to contextualise what they read or watch.

There is damage, but it was mostly from bullying peers at school, not books. They were my refuge.

Books can really be an outlet for kids to think through these things. And contrary to what some adults think, that doesn't happen by giving only feel good stories with good examples, or heavy handed messages about what's bad, or even only books written from the "correct" point of view. Seeing how negative behaviors and ideas manifest in a literary environment can help kids make sense of them in an abstract setting that is intellectually mediated. That's why reading literature is so effective at fostering things like empathy, resilience, and emotional intelligence.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/02/2023 07:46

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 22:27

This was an excellent read - thank you for posting it. Shriver says it all.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/02/2023 07:49

EsmaCannonball · 25/02/2023 23:19

The Times has reported that people who have ebooks of Roald Dahl works had their copies automatically updated to the new censored versions. Chilling. I wonder if Puffin will restore the originals to their readers?

I'm glad I buy most of my books in a lovely non-profit second-hand bookshop.

That is seriously offensive.

How dare the ebook people assume that anyone wants a censored, Bowdlerised version of any book? Presumably if the found thee original offensive they would have returned it. The new version isn't the book they bought and paid for. It's the publishers controlling what people read.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/02/2023 07:50

Thelnebriati · 25/02/2023 23:49

I stopped using Kindle after they deleted all of my ebook collection (to change the way you use the app), including hundreds that were in epub format that had nothing to do with Kindle or Amazon. I still don't know how they got away with it.

I heard of this happening to someone a few years ago - it was reported in the paper. She didn't get recompense for the hundreds of pounds she had spent on them, either, IIRC

Always4Brenner · 26/02/2023 09:56

They’re doing Ian Fleming next we 007 fans are fuming.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/02/2023 10:14

James Bond pulled on his organic unbleached fair trade cotton 'THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE' t-shirt and checked once again that his toiletries were indeed vegan and cruelty-free. He carefully pinned on his CND badge and checked his supplies of low-carb raw food and homeopathic remedies were all packed. He would cycle to the docks and then set sail for Blofeld's current hideout in the middle of the Indian Ocean. His mission was to persuade Blofeld not to destroy the world with nuclear weapons. It would of course have been much quicker to fly, but unthinkable from an environmental point of view. He would have to hope that the winds remained in the right direction. It would give him time to refine his appeal to Blofeld's better nature.

Andante57 · 26/02/2023 10:22

Brilliant, Gasp0de!
Keep ‘em coming.

Theunamedcat · 26/02/2023 11:50

Is mein kampf still published? Adolf is more problematic than Dahl surely?

Theunamedcat · 26/02/2023 11:53

The whole point of James bond is that he is a privileged oversexed white racist misogynistic man who gets off on killing people surely?

EsmaCannonball · 26/02/2023 11:57

Always4Brenner · 26/02/2023 09:56

They’re doing Ian Fleming next we 007 fans are fuming.

Imagine you've known someone for years and have always found them perfectly pleasant and polite, if a bit anodyne, and when they die you discover that not only were they far more entertaining when you were not around but also unpleasantly racist and misogynistic. To make things worse, people who knew this person for longer than you not only kept this person's true nature hidden but actively covered up their behaviour to keep you in ignorance. Wouldn't it be more sinister and damaging that you were never allowed all the facts? Wouldn't it be more offensive and patronising that people didn't allow you to judge this person on your own terms?

Literature is meant to date and be of its time. It's profoundly offensive to try to fool people into thinking the James Bond books don't contain any racism. If the fuckers come for Evelyn Waugh I will be fuming.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 26/02/2023 12:00

VoodooQualities · 19/02/2023 08:51

I read all the CS Lewis books when I was a child and they had some pretty dodgy white vs brown, othering representations of the neighbouring enemy state. They were called the Calormenes or something like that, they wore turbans, worshipped a different, evil god called Tash and ate oil on their bread instead of butter like normal people would.

The reason all this remains fresh in my mind nearly forty years later is because I recognised it then as writing from a bygone era, and I worked out all by myself that attitudes change and that a reader should apply a critical eye to older texts.

Although one of the heroes is a Calormene soldier, who is one of the most principled and courageous characters in the book. Not as black and white (ahem) as you might think then…..

but you are absolutely correct, of course.

mach2 · 26/02/2023 12:15

Theunamedcat · 26/02/2023 11:53

The whole point of James bond is that he is a privileged oversexed white racist misogynistic man who gets off on killing people surely?

Oh yes, he was supposed to be an utter bastard.

DemiColon · 26/02/2023 12:30

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/02/2023 07:50

I heard of this happening to someone a few years ago - it was reported in the paper. She didn't get recompense for the hundreds of pounds she had spent on them, either, IIRC

My understanding is that with e-books, you don't really own them. You are paying for a service, but none of the content is your property. It's more like a netflix subscription.

Always4Brenner · 26/02/2023 12:40

EsmaCannonball · 26/02/2023 11:57

Imagine you've known someone for years and have always found them perfectly pleasant and polite, if a bit anodyne, and when they die you discover that not only were they far more entertaining when you were not around but also unpleasantly racist and misogynistic. To make things worse, people who knew this person for longer than you not only kept this person's true nature hidden but actively covered up their behaviour to keep you in ignorance. Wouldn't it be more sinister and damaging that you were never allowed all the facts? Wouldn't it be more offensive and patronising that people didn't allow you to judge this person on your own terms?

Literature is meant to date and be of its time. It's profoundly offensive to try to fool people into thinking the James Bond books don't contain any racism. If the fuckers come for Evelyn Waugh I will be fuming.

They do contain racism I’m not disagreeing with that but they were written in the 50s what about Uncle Toms Cabin then? And yes Fleming 3as no angel either I know this. But where does it end they’re banning books right left and centre in the states T0 Kill a mockingbird and 1984 for a start.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/02/2023 13:46

DemiColon · 26/02/2023 12:30

My understanding is that with e-books, you don't really own them. You are paying for a service, but none of the content is your property. It's more like a netflix subscription.

I had believed that the books were your - forever. It has come as quite a surprise to me that they are only "rented".

If that's so, there should be no limit on when you can send them back for refund (even if partial).

I have a kindle: it was a gift, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered - I like a real book - but had always been under the impression that those were MINE! It seems I'm wrong. I don't think they make that clear on the website.

Emotionalsupportviper · 26/02/2023 13:57

Theunamedcat · 26/02/2023 11:53

The whole point of James bond is that he is a privileged oversexed white racist misogynistic man who gets off on killing people surely?

Yes - and in view of this I'm surprised that they want to change Bond. You'd think they'd view the books as instruction manuals.

I can't imagine Dennis Wheatley will come out of this well.

If the fuckers come for Evelyn Waugh I will be fuming.

So will I!

You can't take any author out of their age, and you ought not to sanitise stuff to protect children from unpopular or outdated beliefs. We have to acknowledge and discuss differing and evolving attitudes in order to recognise why areso many of them wrong.

It seems ironic that children who can't describe anyone as "fat" will be supported, while still children, to undergo radical "sex change" surgery and take body damaging hormones if many of these new puritans have their way.

I've also just remembered that in "Fungus the Bogeyman" the Bogey people's toilets are described as being particularly disgusting. "Even worse than the ones in France", IIRC. That's the entente cordiale stuffed if something isn't done about that, toot sweet.

Andante57 · 26/02/2023 17:56

If the fuckers come for Evelyn Waugh I will be fuming.

I’m amazed they haven’t already. I’ll be walking past Waterstones on Wednesday - I’ll have a quick skim through Decline & Fall.

DerekFaker · 02/03/2023 17:13

REVEALED: Roald Dahl books were neutered by woke consultants aged eight to 30 - led by 'non-binary, asexual, polyamorous relationship anarchist who is on the autism spectrum'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11809713/Roald-Dahl-books-editors-led-non-binary-asexual-autist.html

ReadersD1gest · 02/03/2023 17:15

plumduck · 19/02/2023 08:46

References to “female” characters have disappeared. Miss Trunchbull in Matilda, once a “most formidable female”, is now a “most formidable woman”.

What's wrong with that?

It's not what he wrote. Who gets to decide that the word female is so inappropriate that it has to be amended?

nepeta · 02/03/2023 17:23

DerekFaker · 02/03/2023 17:13

REVEALED: Roald Dahl books were neutered by woke consultants aged eight to 30 - led by 'non-binary, asexual, polyamorous relationship anarchist who is on the autism spectrum'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11809713/Roald-Dahl-books-editors-led-non-binary-asexual-autist.html

This is interesting, because the censorship is done by a person from an extremely tiny group (though polyamorous men have always been fairly mainstream, think of Casanova, Don Juan, polygamy, and being one, if male, is the opposite of woke).

When did we vote in authoritarianism of this kind? What about the majority of readers? Suppose they regard the changes hurtful, they now feel unsafe; why is this ignored so completely? Or what about the loss of artistic value?

I hated Henry Miller's sexist misogyny so much, but I would never advocate for his book to be rewritten. Or Nabokov's Lolita, which is certainly not feminist at all.

IcakethereforeIam · 02/03/2023 17:25

Some of the wording seems to have been changed just for the sake of making changes. As for the wigs, there are plenty of other reasons why a 'woman' might wear a wig, we wouldn't want the fragrant Isla being mistaken for a witch now.

Emotionalsupportviper · 02/03/2023 21:08

ReadersD1gest · 02/03/2023 17:15

It's not what he wrote. Who gets to decide that the word female is so inappropriate that it has to be amended?

And it completely loses the force of the language - particularly when read aloud. "Formidable female" is wonderfully alliterative and has a cadence that "formidable woman" lacks.

It's the difference between good writing snd pedestrian writing. If Dahl had wanted to say "woman", he would have said "woman".

And I'll bet he knew exactly what a woman was and is.

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