Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

Legally 'a woman' you mean?

Female is, of course, a biological descriptor.

They would phone your employer and ask if you were living as a woman and they would do the same to family and friends.

How does a man live as a woman?

This is a question which has often been asked on here but never answered. Since you claim to have done this @Bathhy, perhaps you can be the first to answer this question.

So if you understand that you are not a woman why do you think you should use women’s toilets? And presumably hospital wards and prison cells?

@@OldCrone
Another requirement, as I understood from a transsexual posting on here a few years ago, was that the person undergoing this surgery had to sign a document confirming that they understood that following surgery they wouldn't have actually changed sex, and that the surgery was purely cosmetic.

That's what a few transsexual males on Twitter say - those who had full GRS decades ago. They are clear that they have not become women and they do not use women's provisions, out of respect for women. Even if they don't use the men's, there's always a way around it which doesn't involve using disabled or women's spaces. Like the planning app for toilet provision which a pp mentioned. One TS male said they arrive at the gym in their workout gear and afterwards, they shower at home. So clearly, perfectly possible not to invade women's single sex spaces. And they seem in a better place psychologically.

Were you ever offered psychological counselling by tthe clinic to get to the root of your dysphoria? And What do you now feel, in retrospect, were the forces or feelings that created your desire to transition?

I agree I think it's completely unethical, the gender identity clinic was in Britain and was a part of the NHS. Gender identity clinics have been a part of the NHS since 1966.

I was only 20 at the time so I wasn't married But the gender identity clinic did phone my boyfriend which we had a big laugh about at the time.
Can't have been as funny for the wives being told, I'd imagine.

I'm very grateful that gender identity clinics of today are far more ethical and treat trans people with far more respect now.

I guess that will have acted as a bit of a filter for the Marianne types mentioned upthread who seem to have no dysphoria around their sex at all, present male or female as they choose (even when presenting male) and like using women’s spaces. Now it is just women that have to feel uncomfortable.

Now the Scottish govt, the Labour Party, Lib Dems, Greens and the ‘Women’s’ Equality Party all want to remove all filters and barriers and allow anyone - absolutely anyone, not just people with gender dysphoria to obtain a fresh new Birth Certificate and handily erase all previous identities. A fraudsters paradise.

I'm imagining it was the Tavistock, that seems to have acted as an umbrella organisation for many years?

I think the real life test was required before genital surgery (I'm sure @Bathhy can confirm if this is what is being referred to).

To actually take photographs is public toilets?

You feel that dysphoria should be qualification enough to transition. We can both agree that 'living as a woman' is meaningless. What can it possibly mean other than pure performativity in order to be seen to be jumping through hoops.

So, you acquired a GRC which makes you legally 'a woman'. What does that mean to you, and what do you expect it to do for you? What rights do you think it should afford you? How does it help with dysphoria.

"I'm very grateful that gender identity clinics of today are far more ethical"

I'm sure the vulnerable children (often on the spectrum) and the parents of said children who have been given life changing surgeries and medications and who ultimately changed their minds, will tend to disagree with your sweeping statement.

Now the Scottish govt, the Labour Party, Lib Dems, Greens and the ‘Women’s’ Equality Party all want to remove all filters and barriers and allow anyone - absolutely anyone, not just people with gender dysphoria to obtain a fresh new Birth Certificate and handily erase all previous identities. A fraudsters paradise.

At least in Ireland you keep your PPS number, unique to you and used on everything.

Oozlum Bird. I keep thinking it. It should be the mascot of the left.

Mythical, a bit of a joke, and rapidly disappearing up its own bum.

I said I'm legally female, I don't actually believe I'm biologically a woman

This is what is strange about the whole system.

Clinics diagnosis and treat gender dysphoria. Nothing about sex.

A GRC supposedly recognises an individuals gender. But also allows, for some reason, to change 'sex' recorded on their birth certificate. The government and organisations dont recognise that 'aquired sex' in all situations.

Then trans people will all claim different things - gender and sex are the same, or different. They are the aquired sex, or they arent the aquired sex (male or female) but are they aquired gender (man or woman). Or in this case they are female, but not a woman.

They then are allowed in changing rooms because they are the target sex, or the target gender, and changing rooms are divided by gender, not sex.

Theres absolutely no foundations to any of this. Its just what the individual wants at any given time. And women are expected to find a compromise?

Yup!

There needs to be a new, clear legal ruling, made very explicit and public, going forward - that will then remove any false assumptions that people may be operating under.

Yes and criminal consequences for those who do not abide by it.

At least in Ireland you keep your PPS number, unique to you and used on everything.

Thats a positive.

I was having a little dig on the National Insurance number here in the UK and found this interesting publication

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/366019/Pride1.pdf

Fully Stonewall branded - Taxes and benefits Information for our lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender customers.
National Insurance Contributions.

Did you know...
• You stop paying National Insurance Contributions when you reach State Pension age.
• The State Pension age for men is currently 65 but will increase in future.
• Since April 2010 the State Pension age for women is gradually being increased so that it becomes equal to that of men. For further information and details of how to work out your State Pension age, go to the State Pension age calculator www.direct.gov.uk/spacalculator
Or call the Pension Service on 08457 313233 and ask for a leaflet about State Pensions.
• People who change gender and obtain a full Gender Recognition Certificate will pay National Insurance Contributions on the basis of their acquired gender.
• When State Pension age is equalised between men and women then a change of gender will have no effect on when an individual’s contribution liability ends.
• For further information on State Pensions please see page 11.

Further down it confirms that state pension age depends on ‘acquired gender’ if a GRC is held.

Elsewhere I saw that HMRC made special exceptions in the pension rules to allow male born people with a GRC to retire at the female age ie make fewer contributions.

A little galling for the WASPI women.

A little galling for the WASPI women.

Don't get me started on that.

@Helleofabore that's great to hear that there's an app that already has locations of (presumably single occupancy?) facilities. Do you know any more about it?

That's something that may be of interest to the OP and anyone else who does not feel safe in single sex spaces for their biological sex but wants to respect women's toilets etc.

Yes, I was offered psychological counseling. But there is no known root cause for gender dysphoria we don't know if it's genetic, social, or trauma. It's not an eating disorder where you can find the root cause and address the root cause and then hopefully recover. The desire to transition was not created in me I was just born this way.

Doctors have tried to stop trans people from transitioning for a very long time they tried talk therapy and conversion therapy and electric shock therapy etc etc and it didn't work, All we know is when you have gender dysphoria the only proven way is the transition.

In retrospect, I would consider transition one of the best decisions of my life. Gender dysphoria in my experience is a hellish condition, I spent 19 years of my life in complete nullness unable to feel happiness or any positive emotions i was completely emotionally and mentally dead inside but transition changed all of that.

Wow. WOW!

My posts were in connection with taking the OP in good faith, and how the response made the OP leave. IMO, this is a shame and I said why.

In response, posters have accused me of appeasement, patronisingly of naïveté and less experience than posters who disagree, that I'm advocating for fawning obeisance, that I am defending these men, that I'm being "just be kind", that I can't say 'no' to men, DARVO, that I am expecting women to give energy to helping men with their feelings, that I am emotionally manipulative and trying to silence women, cruelly defending the rights of men to use female spaces, starting a conversation that upsets women requiring flowers to be passed, that I think we should invite men into womens toilets, implying I'll hand wave away a story about an experience of sexual assault in a toilet, that I am envisaging a solution where women agree to be kind and protective, supporting the OP in violating boundaries, attempting to shame posters,

I pretty much let all that slide, although I find it weird and - honestly - hurtfully offensive (tiny violin) given my actual posts and rationale behind them. How can I write one seemingly benign thing, but end up being told I've done a list of quite horrible things.

Then my last post - quoted here - which you reply to above. I can add more accusations of emotional manipulation, using manipulative tactics, dishonesty.

... because I suggested finding away to talk? Seriously...?

But nothing that has been responded to me is questionable at all? That not one of those responses above could be construed as emotionally manipulative or unreasonable.

What I'm reading from this, is although I'm firmly gender critical, ACTIVELY GC, I'm not properly gender critical, or the right kind of gender critical for this space.

You say the fact that I disagree is evidence that this is not an echo chamber.

But how about if I tell you I don't feel like I can fit into this forum, based on a lot of the stuff I've been tacitly accused of, above, including your rather nasty suggestions. I don't think I have the energy to defend myself of horrible stuff on the occasions I step outside the circle. I don't know where the boundaries are, so I'm bowing out.

One absence successfully achieved because of perceived ... what? What? Gender critical treachery?

Is it an echo chamber now?

👏 Slow hand clap.

Well I was scared to death, 6 foot man built like a builder in the loos. Ruined out night out.

Then I find out he is parading as a professional counselling woman. "Helping" childrens mutilation. It should not be allowed.

Doctors have tried to stop trans people from transitioning for a very long time they tried talk therapy and conversion therapy and electric shock therapy etc etc and it didn't work, All we know is when you have gender dysphoria the only proven way is the transition.

I’m very glad you’ve found peace but the psychiatrists at the Tavistock would beg to differ when considering the current cohort of children and young people. They very much find gender dysphoria to be a symptom or manifestation of other underlying causes like being gay in a homophobic environment for example.

They, and many others, have found that transition is not the only treatment for gender dysphoria and in many cases, not an appropriate treatment at all. I think they stopped electric shock treatment at least 40 years ago, if Stonewalls claims are anything to go by. Obviously it is now illegal.

Many detransitioners have said that if they could have accessed talk therapy they may not have gone down the medical transition route and permanently harmed their bodies and health. Now, thanks to the trans activists and Stonewall capture of psychiatry regulator, it is almost impossible to get talking therapy for this.