Rayner on the Isla Bryson case

[ResisterRex]

It's like they don't want to win.

Angela Rayner: ‘I overshare. Keir Starmer undershares’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a243ac9c-a7d0-11ed-999f-64d8c8a46b78?shareToken=bb096ff7b4ffc77b62d8a23af42fefd5

"Is Isla Bryson a woman? “The recent case?” Looking slightly thrown, she starts talking about guidelines, processes, safeguards, circumstances. “So from what I know about the case, I would not have been putting that person in a women-only prison.” But that wasn’t the question, so I ask again.

“Well, that person’s identifying as a woman now. But they’re right at the beginning of a transition — that they believe is right for them, however, and that’s fine. We respect that. That doesn’t mean to say by respecting it you instantly say, OK, well, that person then goes into a vulnerable space.”

Rayner keeps saying Bryson is “at the very start of the process” of becoming a woman, and keeps citing this as a reason why she should not be in a women’s jail. But Bryson began gender reassignment therapy back in 2020, shortly after she was charged. The SNP’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which Labour voted for, would grant a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to any adult who declared they had been living in their acquired gender for just three months. In other words, had the law Rayner’s own party supports been in place when Bryson began her transition, she could by now have been legally female for more than two years. Even under the existing legislation, brought in by Labour in 2004, Bryson is by now eligible to apply for a GRC, although as far as anyone knows she does not have one. The Scottish Prison Service still remanded her to a women’s jail, though, because several years ago it quietly adopted a de facto self-ID policy — the very policy Rayner supports. By the logic of Rayner’s own stated beliefs, Bryson is categorically a woman.

Bryson, 31, claims to have known she was a woman since she was four. Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled."

Continues at link

Feel for us who have Nadia Whittome, I think she's got one of the safest seats in the country.

@Jux
Exactly right - that's another reason why exposing women to what is effectively torture, really, by the threat of rape, actual rape/sexual assault and the actions of controlling or coercive males is so grotesque. It's a terrible additional punishment of vulnerable individuals who are mostly only in prison because they cannot pay some sort of fine or fee (that's 70% of the female prison population). Self-harm in English women's prisons has shot up since 2018, which some of us attribute to the more widespread introduction of males.

@ArabellaScott
There's not enough focus on the male offenders currently housed in the female estate in England. There are several Adam Grahams, but as yet not the perfect storm of timing to garner press attention. I guarantee it will happen, though. I just pray it's sooner rather than later.

As far as I'm aware Tony Blair has always been very vocal about Labour not getting caught up in Identity Politics, and he has also said he would refuse to sign the Trans Rights pledge.

Why is it you think Kier Starmer is so gung ho on the issue, then? He seems to be neither personally fully briefed nor knowledgeable. Who do you think is advising him and pulling his strings.David Lammy doesn't know what he is talking about either. Why are they all so keen if not to placate certain lobbyists, prominent gay men, and younger members?

You could still get out there and hold her feet to the fire and make her accountable to some of the minority and ethnic communities she is supposed to represent. I'm in a safe Labour seat too.

Because maybe no-one knows what a woman is anymore, maybe?

How do we find out more about what's actually going on in women's prisons in England and Wales?

As far as I'm aware Tony Blair has always been very vocal about Labour not getting caught up in Identity Politics, and he has also said he would refuse to sign the Trans Rights pledge.

Why is it you think Kier Starmer is so gung ho on the issue, then? He seems to be neither personally fully briefed nor knowledgeable. Who do you think is advising him and pulling his strings.David Lammy doesn't know what he is talking about either. Why are they all so keen if not to placate certain lobbyists, prominent gay men, and younger members?

Tony Blair introduced the GRA and the EqA including the ambiguous wording. So i don't know why he's saying he doesn't want labour to be caught up with identity politics. He seemed very keen on it when he was prime minister.

Starmer has said how proud he is of the GRA and the EqA, his background is in law. He would have to be inept to not understand the issues. If he's not fully briefed or knowledgable, its because he doesnt want to acknowledge the problems for women and children.

Gender ideology is a ingrained within politics, the 'certain lobbyists, prominent gay men, and younger members' arent a different group to the ones who made and continue to support the law. They are just of a different generation.

Lots of people unquestioningly waved through gender legislation - but that was quite a few years ago now, since then there has beeen more public consciousness and the rudiments of debate and as a result many people have shifted their position.

In recent years Tony Blair has publicly disavowed trans ideology and Identity politics and backed JK Rowling. The full on capitulation to trans ideology began with Jeremy Corbyn when he permitted trans identified men to stand as women's officers. He still signs off with pronouns. And Jeremy Corbyn brought with him a whole new younger membership - the Momentum crowd - who are zealous on all sorts of issues, including Intersectionalism and Gender Ideology.

Money, maybe? There is supposedly a big hole in Labour's finances and perhaps a big TRA or pharmaceutical company donor is prepared to fill it - at a price.
I don't think KS is a true believer, either.

Awful woman. Corbyn in a dress.

I agree with you. He can't possibly be.

Mind you, he never seems to have even the most basic grasp of the issue, leaving it instead to his advisors. You always get the impression he is reading from a pre-written script.

Below is a Joan Smith article that appeared in 'Un-Herd' a couple of years ago.

unherd.com/2021/05/women-dont-feel-safe-with-labour/

Jeremy Corbyn, when Labour leader, told Theresa May he would back the Tories if the government wanted to reform legislation about changing legal gender.

"Jeremy Corbyn has challenged Theresa May to allow people to self-identify as transgender without having to go through medical checks, pledging that Labour would support any government attempt to change the law"

"Jeremy Corbyn is on a collision course with female activists at Labour Party conference over a decision to make self-identifying trans women eligible for all-women shortlists"

Lots of people unquestioningly waved through gender legislation - but that was quite a few years ago now, since then there has beeen more public consciousness and the rudiments of debate and as a result many people have shifted their position.

How many MPs are calling for the GRA to be repealled? Starmer has called for it to be modernised.

While politicians support a root for a man to become female, they have not shifted their position. Female to them is an identity that can be aquired by men.

kpssinfo.org

A useful resource, although figures are for 2021/22

The post was in response to your questioning of Tony Blair's current stance. He is one of many ( not necessarily all in the Labour Party) who have shifted their stance in the light of passing time and increased awareness. I'm sure there must be more in the Labour Party. I've heard some meet secretly to discuss the issue.I'd like to think that Rachel Reeve is one of those number, but if she is, it is of no use unless she effects the direction of travel.

I just think people haven't really thought about it. But there is a lot of people travelling now. On the rest is politics Alistair Campbell even said politicians have to be prepared to set out the facts on this issue, where a few weeks ago he said he couldn't understand why anyone thought it was important and before that the podcast rarely touched on it.

Has Blair talked openly about wanting to repeal the GRA? Saying Labour shouldnt involve itself in Identity politics is not the same as believing that a man has no legal right to have a female birth certificate.

He only saying labour shouldnt talk about it. Similar to Starmer saying we shouldnt talk about cervix as part womens biology. They want the conversation to stop, not their policies.

Starmer has said how proud he is of the GRA and the EqA, his background is in law. He would have to be inept to not understand the issues. If he's not fully briefed or knowledgable, its because he doesnt want to acknowledge the problems for women and children.

I agree anyone who claims to be 'proud' of the GRA when that Act unleashed the current shit show, an Act that reduced females to a set of regressive, insulting, sexist stereotypes doesn't give a flying fuck about women or children.

As you must be aware Tony Blair is hardly flavour of the day amonsgt many Labour party members and activists. Anything he says, they want the opposite. He has the political sense to stay out of the front line and attempting to dictate party policy; but he does have a lot to say behind the scenes and much of it is spot on.

Their most successful leader ever- yes why would anyone pay attention to what he says?

As you must be aware Tony Blair is hardly flavour of the day amonsgt many Labour party members and activists. Anything he says, they want the opposite. He has the political sense to stay out of the front line and attempting to dictate party policy; but he does have a lot to say behind the scenes and much of it is spot on.

Having lots to say is only useful if he as any influence and is willing to say it publicly, surely?

From the Times article:

Bryson, 31, claims to have known she was a woman since she was four. Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled.

Well, I don’t know. Because I don’t know what’s inside that person’s head.” I agree, it is impossible for anyone to know. But according to the principle of self-ID, what’s inside someone’s head should determine their legal right to access female-only spaces."

I just don't understand how supposedly intelligent people don't see the fundamental problem with self-ID.

(Aside from the separate issue of women not wanting people with male bodies in female-only spaces, whether their gender ID is determined by themselves or by some kind of psychiatric evaluation).

What a great article. How good it is to see a journalist holding a politicians feet to the fire, even if they're as dim as AR.

NotHavingIt I really agree about getting organised. I would love there to be another pledge for 2023 for Labour MPs to sign with pledges to support women including around not giving up their spaces and opportunities and safeguarding to validate male people’s gender identity feelings.

While they’re at it they could make some measurable pledges as part of this about putting in policies combating male violence and sexual entitlement and against male harassment of women.

Rayner is another Nicola Sturgeon. Her personal ambition supercedes her morals (if she even has them) when it comes to protecting women and girls. I do hope she never holds any position of power as if she can behave like this on this issue she can also be disingenuous on others.