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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rayner on the Isla Bryson case

243 replies

ResisterRex · 18/02/2023 20:46

It's like they don't want to win.

Angela Rayner: ‘I overshare. Keir Starmer undershares’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a243ac9c-a7d0-11ed-999f-64d8c8a46b78?shareToken=bb096ff7b4ffc77b62d8a23af42fefd5

"Is Isla Bryson a woman? “The recent case?” Looking slightly thrown, she starts talking about guidelines, processes, safeguards, circumstances. “So from what I know about the case, I would not have been putting that person in a women-only prison.” But that wasn’t the question, so I ask again.

“Well, that person’s identifying as a woman now. But they’re right at the beginning of a transition — that they believe is right for them, however, and that’s fine. We respect that. That doesn’t mean to say by respecting it you instantly say, OK, well, that person then goes into a vulnerable space.”

Rayner keeps saying Bryson is “at the very start of the process” of becoming a woman, and keeps citing this as a reason why she should not be in a women’s jail. But Bryson began gender reassignment therapy back in 2020, shortly after she was charged. The SNP’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which Labour voted for, would grant a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to any adult who declared they had been living in their acquired gender for just three months. In other words, had the law Rayner’s own party supports been in place when Bryson began her transition, she could by now have been legally female for more than two years. Even under the existing legislation, brought in by Labour in 2004, Bryson is by now eligible to apply for a GRC, although as far as anyone knows she does not have one. The Scottish Prison Service still remanded her to a women’s jail, though, because several years ago it quietly adopted a de facto self-ID policy — the very policy Rayner supports. By the logic of Rayner’s own stated beliefs, Bryson is categorically a woman.

Bryson, 31, claims to have known she was a woman since she was four. Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled."

Continues at link

OP posts:
twitterexile · 19/02/2023 10:53

Painful and embarrassing. I cannot believe that people are actually going to vote these idiots in next year. Being politically homeless is really grim.

GailBlancheViola · 19/02/2023 10:54

Do ypu know how hard women have to fail to actually get a custodial sentence? Just like you have, they have every excuse made for them so often female prisoners are horrible horrible horrible people.

That is complete and utter bollocks women are more likely to get a custodial sentence for a first offence than men.

women are treated disproportionately harsh in comparison to men by the criminal justice system, seen to have deviated from social and gender norms by offending. It could be argued that this is the reason women are more frequently sentenced to short custodial sentences for low risk offences than men - 58% of women sentenced to custody in 2020 received under 6 months, 31% for theft compared to 16% for men (Prison Reform Trust, 2021).

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 11:01

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 10:52

It was a really simple question which she was completely unable to answer 😳

Give her credit, she managed to turn an embarrassing failure into a spectacularly surreal serial fiasco.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 11:03

Yes, i guess that shows a certain talent….i guess

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 11:04

It's almost entertaining, if you enjoy that kind of thing.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 11:14

Like watching the office for the first time and wanting to die of embarrassment on behalf of the character

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 11:19

Wonder if she has ever seen The Thick of It?

guinnessguzzler · 19/02/2023 11:25

Slothtoes · 19/02/2023 10:28

Oh for goodness sake. Labour won’t get themselves cancelled if they say that sex is real and unchanging. The vast majority of people know that to be true.

Agreed. They will likely get in next year whatever they do so they have a choice to make here. Continue the route they have been, prioritising an anti science and completely illogical ideology that they clearly can't properly defend. Or rip the plaster off and likely win back more support from women than they stand to lose and actually be able to conduct themselves with integrity. Far better to do it now.

ExiledElsie · 19/02/2023 11:33

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 11:14

Like watching the office for the first time and wanting to die of embarrassment on behalf of the character

I couldn't make it to the end, was that really less than 4 minutes?

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 11:34

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 11:19

Wonder if she has ever seen The Thick of It?

Possible she took the title personally.

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 11:40

Labour don't care. It's plain as day:

twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/1627265001760194568?s=46&t=gdG3SvNvqsxHNexT-g8mJg

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 19/02/2023 11:44

Let's remind ourselves that, as well as keeping the green benches "warm" for Lily Madigan, Angela Rayner signed a pledge to expel members with "transphobic" views. In practice, this refers to any member who doesn't swallow the mantra that trans women are women. The group that wrote the pledge refers specifically to two organisations, Woman's Place UK and LGB Alliance:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51465800

This was only three years ago, during the leadership and deputy leadership campaign. It's not surprising that this would eventually come back to bite Rayner on the bum. Of course she's in a position now where it's impossible to perform a graceful U-turn.

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 11:50

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 11:40

Full interview now here:

twitter.com/gbnews/status/1627254067142529024?s=46&t=gdG3SvNvqsxHNexT-g8mJg

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NotHavingIt · 19/02/2023 11:57

Local resister groups, and others, need to determine to organise in their local constituencies, in the lead up to a possiible general election; in order to hold their local representatives to account. I live in the Liverpool constituency of Labour MP Kim Johnson, who is totally conformist with the TWAW mantra.

She represents a diverse constituency which contains many minority and ethnic groups who she claims to represent above all others. I'm not at all sure that they are as yet fully aware of what she has in mind for women's protected spaces and categories. But they will do!

Focus and organisation is key. This is a rapidly evolving issue and one in which targeted action can have a big effect.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/02/2023 12:06

howmanybicycles · 19/02/2023 08:52

I don't think it works though. It's still nonsense and I'd not trust any politicians talking like this. KS is apparently going to protect "safe' spaces - single.'sex' spaces afterbyouve redefined sex to be meaningless nonsense.

I agree, which is why my original phrasing was "So my party makes a clear commitment to maintain the single sex provisions as single sex, reserved for people born female until society has moved on to the point they are no longer needed."
^^

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 19/02/2023 12:10

Of course she's in a position now where it's impossible to perform a graceful U-turn.

She doesnt want the U-turn.

This has been labour policy since they introduced the GRA. Its not policy to appeal to the young - if anything the young labour voters a blindly following the Labour establishment.

NotHavingIt · 19/02/2023 12:39

The tendency/trend to refer to single sex spaces as 'safe spaces' continues. Deliberate obfuscation in my view, as a way to disguise people's own discomfort at the ridiculousness and incoherence of their position.

" Let's try and avoid talking about 'sex' and what it means and implies at all costs"

NotHavingIt · 19/02/2023 12:41

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 19/02/2023 12:10

Of course she's in a position now where it's impossible to perform a graceful U-turn.

She doesnt want the U-turn.

This has been labour policy since they introduced the GRA. Its not policy to appeal to the young - if anything the young labour voters a blindly following the Labour establishment.

The Labour party is trying to keep hold of all of those new, young recruits that came with Corbyn, and there is also quite a powerful gay, old boys network.

Captiancorrellistuba · 19/02/2023 12:43

I wonder what Rayner would make of this one - coming soon to a prison near you...

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-now-identifies-infant-who-26675614

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 12:56

Captiancorrellistuba · 19/02/2023 12:43

I wonder what Rayner would make of this one - coming soon to a prison near you...

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-now-identifies-infant-who-26675614

Acceptance without exception of course

OP posts:
Captiancorrellistuba · 19/02/2023 12:57

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 12:56

Acceptance without exception of course

😂😂

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 13:17

Soon it'll be #murdergenderawarenessmonth and we'll all be bigots for not signing a pledge

OP posts:
ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 19/02/2023 13:41

The Labour party is trying to keep hold of all of those new, young recruits that came with Corbyn, and there is also quite a powerful gay, old boys network.

But the idea that the old guard are just responding to the demands of the young is bullshit. It was there with Blair, and Lammy was neck deep in this right from the start, when most of the young recruits were still in nappies.

Labour are just using the idea that because they can say the young are on board with this (as well as the older MPs) its progressive and therefore correct.

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 14:14

Karen White sexually assaulted women in England, of course.

Why isn't Karen White in the news like Isla Bryson was?

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison

Jux · 19/02/2023 14:27

It used to be that, in the UK, custodial sentences were supposed to be not merely punitive but rehabilitative. The punitive bit was fulfilled by the curtailment of your freedom, everything else supposed to be rehab. Thus prisoners to be treated as humans, not targets; dignity and safety preserved.

Is this no longer one of the core tenets of our system of justice?