Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rayner on the Isla Bryson case

243 replies

ResisterRex · 18/02/2023 20:46

It's like they don't want to win.

Angela Rayner: ‘I overshare. Keir Starmer undershares’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a243ac9c-a7d0-11ed-999f-64d8c8a46b78?shareToken=bb096ff7b4ffc77b62d8a23af42fefd5

"Is Isla Bryson a woman? “The recent case?” Looking slightly thrown, she starts talking about guidelines, processes, safeguards, circumstances. “So from what I know about the case, I would not have been putting that person in a women-only prison.” But that wasn’t the question, so I ask again.

“Well, that person’s identifying as a woman now. But they’re right at the beginning of a transition — that they believe is right for them, however, and that’s fine. We respect that. That doesn’t mean to say by respecting it you instantly say, OK, well, that person then goes into a vulnerable space.”

Rayner keeps saying Bryson is “at the very start of the process” of becoming a woman, and keeps citing this as a reason why she should not be in a women’s jail. But Bryson began gender reassignment therapy back in 2020, shortly after she was charged. The SNP’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which Labour voted for, would grant a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to any adult who declared they had been living in their acquired gender for just three months. In other words, had the law Rayner’s own party supports been in place when Bryson began her transition, she could by now have been legally female for more than two years. Even under the existing legislation, brought in by Labour in 2004, Bryson is by now eligible to apply for a GRC, although as far as anyone knows she does not have one. The Scottish Prison Service still remanded her to a women’s jail, though, because several years ago it quietly adopted a de facto self-ID policy — the very policy Rayner supports. By the logic of Rayner’s own stated beliefs, Bryson is categorically a woman.

Bryson, 31, claims to have known she was a woman since she was four. Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled."

Continues at link

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 18/02/2023 20:48

100% captured I am afraid. What a numpty.

WildIris · 18/02/2023 20:49

Feck it, she is such a disappointment!

PoshCoffee · 18/02/2023 20:49

I do wonder how this is going to play out for the Labour Party if they don’t shift on self id. The press are now confident questioning politicians on this subject after the shenanigans in Scotland, in fact some will positively relish it.

Redshoeblueshoe · 18/02/2023 20:49

FFS

FemaleAndLearning · 18/02/2023 20:49

We have to keep reminding them if stuff like this. We can't let it quietly go away.

Letter writing etc.

ResisterRex · 18/02/2023 20:51

PoshCoffee · 18/02/2023 20:49

I do wonder how this is going to play out for the Labour Party if they don’t shift on self id. The press are now confident questioning politicians on this subject after the shenanigans in Scotland, in fact some will positively relish it.

They may not even be asking themselves:

"She repeats this “our British values” line more than once, making me wonder if this will be Labour’s new soundbite in the debate on trans rights, but never explains how these values might reassure all the left-leaning women who tell me they can’t vote for a party that won’t even define what a woman is. I can only think Starmer has calculated that he can afford to lose their votes. Has Labour, I ask, at least conducted private polling to find out exactly how many they are risking?

The suggestion seems to surprise her. “I don’t know.”"

Astonishing.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 18/02/2023 20:51

The way they tie themselves in knots to avoid saying “he” is bloody ridiculous.

PoshCoffee · 18/02/2023 20:54

Well this could be a very interesting few months running up to the election. Especially if we get another Emily Bridges or Isla Bryson hitting the headlines.
Im looking forward to the squirming under questioning already!

HopRockers · 18/02/2023 20:55

Arrrgghhh

And Adam Graham's victims? Are they allowed to identify as having been raped by a fucking horrible MAN?

I'm so so sad that his victims are being subjected to this shit repeatedly.

MsSupineLickspittle · 18/02/2023 20:58

She repeats this “our British values” line more than once, making me wonder if this will be Labour’s new soundbite in the debate on trans rights, but never explains how these values might reassure all the left-leaning women who tell me they can’t vote for a party that won’t even define what a woman is. I can only think Starmer has calculated that he can afford to lose their votes. Has Labour, I ask, at least conducted private polling to find out exactly how many they are risking?
The suggestion seems to surprise her. “I don’t know.”

Why the fuck haven't they done the polling? Who are they worried about upsetting?

Yirk · 18/02/2023 21:02

Disappointed in you Angela, I hoped you would support the rights of biological women.... I really have no one to vote for in coming elections.

LizzieSiddal · 18/02/2023 21:17

They’re 30 points ahead and can afford not to not give a shit about women‘s safety.

smileladiesplease · 18/02/2023 21:20

No they can't afford to do this.

Journalists now have the balls (sorry) to ask the question post Nicolas shit show.

Get your shit together Labour

PaterPower · 18/02/2023 21:23

”So what are the icebergs between now and the next election that could still sink Labour? “We’d have to completely stop listening to the voters. And stop being fiscally responsible.”

Well that’s the first achieved already.

ExiledElsie · 18/02/2023 21:26

Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled.

Not sure if Labour can afford to ignore most women, but if they do, and if they don't learn to say simply "this rapist is a man" they are going to start government already looking like fools.

I hope they do start to think critically because there's no evidence of it yet.

Caaarrrl · 18/02/2023 21:26

Can they not make the link to sturgeon's dogged adherence to this gender ideology and her downfall?

ditalini · 18/02/2023 21:30

She's a fucking coward. They all are.

I don't believe she credits it for a minute but she's seen what happens to women who don't conform and she doesn't want that to happen to her.

And she's happy to throw vulnerable women under the bus to protect her political capital. Gutless.

Boomboom22 · 18/02/2023 21:31

Thing is although I would never vote Labour on this and other points, the general public either don't get this is happening
Don't believe Labour are for it
Don't care anyway as it won't affect me, not my Nigel etc
So Labour are going to win. We need to get as much momentum in now while the gov backs us so when they win the election thus is a done deal and they cannot row it back again. The recent book will help with that and safeguard etc.

Fenlandia · 18/02/2023 21:36

Exactly. If they get into power, then the first Bepenissed LadyCrim who comes along will have Labour tying themselves in knots like Sturgeon did in every interview.

EVHead · 18/02/2023 21:49

They’re wrecking their party with this weakness. So disappointed in Rayner and Starmer. If they don’t grow a backbone and speak the truth on this, they’ll never get the chance to do all the good stuff they want to do for the country.

LizzieSiddal · 18/02/2023 21:51

Can they not make the link to sturgeon's dogged adherence to this gender ideology and her downfall?

I presume this interview would have been done before Sturgeon resigned.

Caaarrrl · 18/02/2023 21:53

LizzieSiddal · 18/02/2023 21:51

Can they not make the link to sturgeon's dogged adherence to this gender ideology and her downfall?

I presume this interview would have been done before Sturgeon resigned.

Oh yes probably. They still won't see the link though.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 18/02/2023 21:54

The thing is, it's so fucking simple to accept trans identities without throwing The People Formerly Known As Women under a bus.

Out of the goodness of my heart, I offer this script to politicians looking for a path through this mess.

"Yes of course TWAW (1). In the bad old days we just thought it was about biological sex but we know now that sex/gender is a 《super complicated hand wavy thing(2)》and that being a women is really about how you feel inside.

"However, the fact remains that these old fashioned ideas about sex, misguided though they may be, are deeply ingrained in society and they do create genuine disadvantages and risks for people who in less enlightened times would be classed as women because of their body.

"So my party makes a clear commitment to maintain the single sex provisions as single sex, reserved for people born female until society has moved on to the point they are no longer needed.

"At the same time, my party also commits unequivocally to introducing new protections and support for women of both sexes, and new protections and support for trans people of all genders, to deal with the challenges these groups face that are unique to them. Because they deserve more than just the old fashioned single sex facilities with a new sign on the door. They deserve to be heard and seen in their own right, not simply lumped in with everyone else who is not a cis man."

(1) TWANW. But a politician who has previously stated they are, or who knows a significant number of their potential voters won't accept anything less than TWAW, we need to find a path forward that doesn't require them to now state TWANW.

(2) I had to give up here because any description of sex/gender that one TRA gives is instantly rejected by all the others. The putative politicians will just have to fill that bit in by themselves.

Ohifyouinsist · 18/02/2023 21:57

MsSupineLickspittle · 18/02/2023 20:58

She repeats this “our British values” line more than once, making me wonder if this will be Labour’s new soundbite in the debate on trans rights, but never explains how these values might reassure all the left-leaning women who tell me they can’t vote for a party that won’t even define what a woman is. I can only think Starmer has calculated that he can afford to lose their votes. Has Labour, I ask, at least conducted private polling to find out exactly how many they are risking?
The suggestion seems to surprise her. “I don’t know.”

Why the fuck haven't they done the polling? Who are they worried about upsetting?

I've been thinking about this a lot. The only answer Ive come up with is the young vote.

Thing is though, young voters are less likely to vote in general elections. So that makes no bloody sense if it's all about winning.

WeWereInParis · 18/02/2023 22:02

"I want to be reassured that Rayner has really thought this through. But she doesn’t seem to have interrogated her own position on this issue very thoroughly at all, and looks increasingly confused when I try to."

This sums it all up rather well I thought.

Swipe left for the next trending thread