Handmaid, Handmaiden.

[CandlelightGlow]

Can someone explain why it's been deemed appropriate to call women who appear to be defending men or considering men in any capacity, handmaids?

Does it mean something else that I'm not aware of? My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels, referring to women who are forced into ritualistic rape, pregnancy and childbirth.

How exactly does it link to a woman who in one's opinion, chooses to serve the patriarchy. Is it a term feminists should ever use? There is a strong connotation of victim blaming if you are choosing to refer to another woman as a willing handmaid. How is it justifiable?

I'm not asking for examples of when you would consider someone fitting the definition of "handmaiden". I've seen this term thrown around on a couple of threads recently and I'm concerned that it's become a term used largely by women, to insult other women, often in the context of feminist discussions, and I find it interesting that given this very particular context, it's deemed acceptable to use? Again, given the highly misogynistic connotation feeding into the "willing female victim" narrative that already plagues patriarchal rhetoric.

It’s annoying that people keep coming up with this same thing, same argument that is wrong. I blame Margaret Atwood.

I mean BlessedKali, if someone said - Kali is the consort of Vishnu, then they started pontificating a whole lot of stuff based on that wrong premise, which resulted in them coming to the conclusion that anyone who uses the name Kali who isn’t a Vaishnava insults her name.

You might feel the need to set them straight, right?

What if that started to happen, with increasing frequency because a popular TV show came out which made them think this?

Your tone might get a bit exasperated I imagine.

Can you genuinely not see the difference between the use of the term in the book, where in the book it's a term directly employed by a society that is as both patriarchal and misogynistic as possible, and the use of the same term as a derogatory term toward women, by other women?

Are they genuinely the same thing to you?

🙃

'Handmaidens to the patriarchy' are the women that uphold the patriarchy. They are the original founder members of the Female Misogynist Club.

But you're replacing objective truth with human behaviour. People are using the term Handmaid as an insult toward women who don't agree with them and who are in their opinion (bearing in mind that opinion is subjective) upholding the patriarchy.

You can't just say "the argument is wrong" because you obviously can't prove that absolutely no one is using the term "handmaid" as an insult in the way I am saying they are.

Now THAT’S an insult!

But I clearly go on to explain both my understanding and the context it has been used in RIGHT under the bit you have cropped out! You can clearly see I'm referring to the Margaret Atwood novels!

I've asked if there is another meaning, some people have talked about older meanings, it's a discussion. I still don't believe that means that nobody in the world is using the word handmaid as an insult to women and are doing so with their frame of reference for the term being the MA books/TV show.

This thread is moving quickly, I don’t know if you saw that I ask where and when ‘Handmaid’ is used as an insult. I haven’t seen it.

Sturgeon is apt. Sturgeoning. I th8nk this could catch on.

‘Sturgeoning to destruction’

Maybe OP you could reflect on what behaviour you displayed to be given the handmaiden title.

Can you genuinely not see the difference between the use of the term in the book, where in the book it's a term directly employed by a society that is as both patriarchal and misogynistic as possible, and the use of the same term as a derogatory term toward women, by other women?

I have been around the block a lot of times. Frankly? If they are acting like a PickMe or a CoolGirl or a Handmaiden (or Handmaid) then I'll call them on it. I literally don't care about their hurty feels.

It has been used, afaik, since before the book. Atwood is astute, she knows what words can do and which words to pick. But all I'm seeing on this thread is OP telling feminists that they're doing it wrong. Well, here's the thing. There are lots of ways to feminist. And they're not wrong. Hadmaidening, doing the Pick Me dance and being a Cool Girl? not so much.

I reckon Sturgeons have lots of knowledge. Worse than handmaidens

Seconded

I've actually seen it a fair few times on mumsnet. The latest time was just the other day, it wasn't even a feminism thread.

Remember I'm not just talking about when it's used with an insulting tone, but when referring to women.

‘Assistant Sturgeon to the Society of Spermfolk’?

How can we ever have a discussion amongst feminists with different beliefs, if every single talking point is framed as "you're just telling other feminists they're doing it wrong".

Handmaiden is used as an insult on here all the time, it's disingenuous to pretend it isn't. Sometimes it's warranted imo - as when a poster plops onto a threat to victim blame or not my Nigel, other times it isn't. See also cool wife and cool girlfriend.

I'm not sure I agree with the OP and would like to know what the circumstances were when she was called a handmaiden, but let's not argue black is white. You know handmaiden is used as an insult, the question really is more 'is it warranted'. Sometimes it is. It's OK to be pissed off. I mean, you're (one) isn't going to change any minds when expressing your pissed-offedness, but it's OK to feel and express it.

This is the problem I have on here. It's like a bad game, where I have to pretend that people are engaging in good faith, when I know that really they're not.

we don't need a discussion about it. We use shorthand for all sorts of things. Shorthand words convey a whole raft of meaning in one word. Like Hygge in Danish or Heimat in German. You can translate them as "cosy" or "home" but they mean so so so much more than that.

So when i see a woman throw women under the bus by cosying up to TRAs or MRAs or being anti feminist? You can bet i will call her a handmaiden or one of the others. Because it describes what she is doing perfectly. And here's the thing: they don't often describe themselves as feminists.

I have too much to worry about without worrying about if the next generation of feminists is going to whine about the shorthand. I don't need to discuss my feminism. And, tbh, because I'm a feminist, if other women want to be handmaidens? that is entirely up to them. And they can carry on as much as they like until it affects other women negatively. Then? I'll call them on it.

And they come and pile on and any posters who were actually interested in the discussion, or had interesting points to make, leave quickly, and it just becomes a couple of posters repeatedly saying various forms of "you're wrong"

Lots of people have asked what your beliefs are that caused you to be called a handmaid but you won't say
So this doesn't seem to be about you wanting to discuss your feminist beliefs

TBH not sure what you do want from the thread at this point

Handmaiden is used as an insult on here all the time

Maybe it is, but ‘handmaid’? Not seen that around here. Just wondered where that was going on.

You misunderstood the question.

‘Handmaiden’ is used by feminists as insulting insult, yes. Absolutely, has been for decades.

But Tea asked about ‘Handmaid’.

She’s trying to ascertain where OPs mix up occurred.

When feminists use handmaiden as an insult they aren’t calling the other woman an enslaved, raped surrogate mother, which is what a ‘Handmaid’ (no en!) is in Atwood’s book.

Yes that little "en" makes a big difference