Handmaid, Handmaiden.

[CandlelightGlow]

Can someone explain why it's been deemed appropriate to call women who appear to be defending men or considering men in any capacity, handmaids?

Does it mean something else that I'm not aware of? My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels, referring to women who are forced into ritualistic rape, pregnancy and childbirth.

How exactly does it link to a woman who in one's opinion, chooses to serve the patriarchy. Is it a term feminists should ever use? There is a strong connotation of victim blaming if you are choosing to refer to another woman as a willing handmaid. How is it justifiable?

I'm not asking for examples of when you would consider someone fitting the definition of "handmaiden". I've seen this term thrown around on a couple of threads recently and I'm concerned that it's become a term used largely by women, to insult other women, often in the context of feminist discussions, and I find it interesting that given this very particular context, it's deemed acceptable to use? Again, given the highly misogynistic connotation feeding into the "willing female victim" narrative that already plagues patriarchal rhetoric.

I worked on the launch of THT TV show in the UK and the idea that it has wide cultural currency in the UK outside feminists of both lib and rad variety is laughable. It's a niche arthouse drama.

When people outside the bubble hear 'handmaiden' they mean you know, someone who's a maid of the intimate variety.

Fair point @ShireWifeofNigelFarage

It's a pretty heartwrenching book..its fucked up.... It played on my mind for a long time, I imagined being in the position of the main character.... And for some time I was actually worried that's where all this madness could have gone... that women are nothing but a costume and some of us are reduced to reproductive machines...

So I do understand the OP's reluctance to use the word (when taken in this context)

If we think of the handmaids tale, in some ways this TRA females are more like the wives of the men in the Handmaid's Tale...

YES i understand it was a feminist term previous to this, but culture shifts happen and words change, and certain meaninga become widespread (Not the word woman though ;) )

I like dick- panderer

I don't agree that there are victim blaming connotations to 'handmaiden'. I think what you understand as victim blaming I understand as an acknowledgment of their knowing and deliberate complicity.

My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels

But you've failed to establish that it does.

'Handmaid/Handmaiden of the ...' was a common term long before the Atwood book. And the way it was most commonly used in the first half of the 20th century - the usage that both Atwood and the 2nd wave feminists would have grown up with - was entirely un gendered. Indeed, it was mostly used for concepts rather than people. It described concepts that were deployed in service and support of other concepts - philosophy, statistics, public health. So applying it to those upholding and reinforcing the patriarchy would have been a natural extension.

Good for you. I'll say what I like too, so I'll say it again. You can't gatekeep feminism. We are just as entitled to express our views, regardless of age, and it's blatant misogyny and ageism that just because you're older than I am, my views are invalid. God help feminism if there's people like you telling young women they can't be part of the club 🙄🙄

Young women can be feminists but they can’t just handwave away feminist history because someone called them a handmaiden and it made them feel bad.

This was actually discussed in the first couple of pages of the thread.

OP how old are you, out of interest?

Challenging some random poster on mumsnet who, whenever someone disagrees with them, asks them "how long they've been a feminist for" is not waving away decades of feminist history🙄🙄

‘Sturgeoning‘ so perfect. It sounds like headlong speeding to brown-nose the patriarchy.

I'm 29

So very possible that for us younger feminists, newer to the scene, it has quite strong, contradictory connotations.

I dont give a shit who uses it, its just interesting.

I like this...

Yes, I can definitely see that.

It is a bit annoying though, that it keeps coming up.

Ha! There's a term more commonly used for women like this in communities I lurk in, they're called "Pick me's"

Well i suppose if it's annoying just don't engage?

In the Bible, Eve is the first woman. She disobeys God and is cast out of the Garden of Eden. In the New Testament, Mary is presented as the new reformed Eve. She is obedient to God and she declares in Luke chapter 1 verse 38

Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her.

She became the figurehead of the Roman Catholic Church because of her obedience. She is regarded by the RC Church as a perfect example for all women.

Popular debate in the modern church, Would you rather be Eve or Mary? Stroppy and disobedient or an obedient mother figure?

If there's a sexual slavery connotation coming from ancient usage or modern short-term understanding, then I'm okay with not using handmaid I guess? I rarely if ever use it and thought it was solely an obedient lady's maid in the master's house which fits the original HOP use.

I do like 'pick me'.

Non sexually demeaning, and apt for libfems, as in their apple for teacher eagerness, which I do want to criticise.

Repeatedly denying that ‘handmaiden’ (with an en on the end) has a distinct feminist subcultural usage that predates the telly programme is you denying feminist history. Every time you type ‘handmaid’ instead of ‘handmaiden’ you deny feminist history.

You can, of course, try to erase feminist history if you feel strongly compelled to do so but perhaps ask yourself where that compulsion comes from first?

why were you so hurt by the accusation of handmaidening for the patriarchy?

is it because you were actually handmaidening for the patriarchy at the time?

You know who else would love to see feminist history and language erased?

Men’s Rights Activists.

That's my main point, I find it strange that women are okay to use a term with those connotations especially when they claim to be feminists.

I don't like the term "pick me" either. I have been reevaluating my own use of the term "incel" (not that I say it, just think it or hear it said a lot) and I really don't think derogatory words are helpful in general. Everyone is so keen to label people and I find it dehumanising and reductive.

Popular debate in the modern church, Would you rather be Eve or Mary? Stroppy and disobedient or an obedient mother figure?

Eve.
Always!

(resists urge to make Slytherin joke)

I thought policing the language women use is a waste of time 🙄

In case it's been lost on you, my entire post is centred on the use of the word handmaid which people have been using as an insult more commonly recently, which I am attributing to the popularity of the Show/book 'The Handmaid's Tale'.

I’m asking you questions, not telling you not to speak.

I'm so uncomfortable with the use of the word. It's just yet another way women are blamed for their own sexual victimisation.

meh. They're victimising women who don't bow down at the altar of Men Are Right To Be In Charge Of Everything. And when the beast of patriarchy turns on them? i will laugh and laugh and laugh

Atwood used the word Handmaid. She's an educated woman. It is entirely possible she used it with purpose, isn't it?