Girl abducted in Galashiels appears to have been held by transwoman

[ArabellaScott]

reduxx.info/scotland-crossdressing-butcher-arrested-in-case-of-missing-child/

Only source so far, but appears to be potentially corroborated by the Sun:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/21308457/cops-search-butchers-and-forensics-scour-for-evidence/

@SinnerBoy agreed. I could almost feel the brain cells leaking out of my ears reading some of this thread until @BellaAmorosa helped shove them back in. It's the lack of logic the most troubles me. It simply doesn't make any sense.

It's the lack of logic and the lack of (non-existent) supporting evidence, too. We're expected to accept a lecture and agree meekly!

I think this thread now serves best as a demonstration of how the fuck we got here. The fervent beliefs, lack of curiosity about anything that doesn't totally affirm their belief, total absense of evidence and even worse, absense of need for evidence shows that this movement has been driven by something akin to religious fervour.

I get shocked all over again when i come across somone who forms their world view in this way. How the fuck they made it to adulthood is beyond me.

Hats off to those of you who kept going.

Not yet at any rate,give it another year or two though...

For me it was the mid sentence switch between sex and gender. I can't decide if it is like Jesus turning water into wine or more like "the earth is flat".

"in the legal sense, people can change sex." Yes, and then what? A legal fiction is still fiction.

"Sex and gender are closely linked" They're both words, but your close link falls apart thereafter. Sex is a demonstrable immutable fact whereas gender is a collection of stereotypes that mean sod/all.

Oh, and men will never be able to gestate and deliver babies; there's a group of humans who already do it exceedingly well - women, doncha know.

Brava, Bella for her well written previous post.

Yes, all of this. Brava to all the patient posters who gently, politely, and rationally pushed back with actual facts. You are better people than me.

don't think this whole issue has been something either of you were frothing about in 1999

Mumsnet wasn’t around in 1999, but the site has been ‘frothing’ about sexism and gender for a very long time.

Would you like an explainer on why concept of gender identity is sexist?

I am genuinely confused as to why the BBC reports Andrew Miller, also known as Amy George as being a man and uses male pronouns throughout when reporting on Andrew/Amy being arrested and charged this week. Why have they done this given that Andrew/Amy says they’re a woman?

Particulary as this news report on Isla Bryson in January uses female pronouns throughout.

Why the different approach?

Absolutely.
There's an optimistic interpretation and a cynical one.

What disgusts me, they had the option of amending their bill to account for exactly this scenario and chose not to. Deliberately and in full knowledge.

How can they possibly justify the roll back now?

It's like Darvo. Or a toddler sticking their fingers in their ears, chanting I can't hear you, nerdy nerdy nahnah! Then being cross because they did indeed get wet when they sat in the puddle. Yes, DS3. I still haven't forgotten.

Public outcry and Nicola Sturgeon trying to avoid having her arse handed to her again.

Note the BBC and the Graun don’t use the word transgender - if they did they’d be breaking their own guidelines re: sexed pronouns and deadnaming.

There's an optimistic interpretation and a cynical one

Hadn’t picked up on the transgender omission but cynical/disingenuous interpretation came to my mind. Setting a new trend for distinguishing between real and fake TW with the former still being given access to SSS? Then saying’ oh sorry’ when they turn out to be wrong.

Why the different approach?

It's so stark, I have to assume that he's chosen not to use his ladyname in dealings with the police. If he had, I imagine you'd be seeing something far more equivocal.

And if he hasn't, I think it's probably due to him recognising the public mood and figuring he'll get less attention if he doesn't make a trans claim.

Sorry, bit of a long post, but ...'Earth is flat', definitely.

The evidence that Jesus turned water into wine is John's Gospel, plus some non-gospel comments about him being a magician. On the other hand, the evidence that he didn't is that it would require Jesus to have a complete control of matter down to the sub-atomic level. Which is admittedly a bit of a mind-bending idea.

But, if you're a Trinitarian Christian, there is no theological problem with Jesus having a complete control of matter (down to the sub-atomic level), owing to the entire 'He's God' proposition. Basically, it boils down to 'If we believe Jesus could do the things God did, do we then decide to believe John's account or not? He seems to be the only witness to this wine thing.'

'The Earth is flat', on the other hand, requires you to actively and continually reject visual, documentary and experiential evidence that the Earth is very much not flat.

What I've noticed about our friends is that they are unable to provide evidence when asked and they avoid defining their terms. They also reject the evidence that transwomen, far from being identical to women, behave as a subset of the sex-class 'men'.

To maintain their beliefs, they have to continually 'reject the evidence of their eyes and ears.'

It's much more 'the Earth is flat', and very different from early Christianity. There, we have letters basically saying 'you can talk to these people, who met Jesus.' Or, 'well, one of the post death appearances was seen by me, and another by a couple of hundred people'. Likewise, the response to 'people don't rise from the dead' was basically, 'Yes, it is weird. We know'.

That's a bunch of people who were accepting the evidence of their eyes and ears, even if that evidence went against the common sense of the day.

There's a big difference between 'this is very weird, now here is our evidence for this weirdness,' versus 'What do you mean by calling this weird, shut up you evil person! We curse you and banish you from our sight!'

The first is a religion. The second's a - well, I'd use the 'c' word. Or a religion that's gone toxic.

I think they are probably just cautiously reporting the information they have been given by the police. I suspect that unlike Bryson, there has been no official name change. If the police say he is a man, there is no basis for them to call him otherwise.

Whilst we definitely want to ensure that people-with-a-trans-identity are accurately recorded in crime statistics (as perpetrators AND victims) the good thing about Andrew Amy George Miller being consistently referred to as a man in the media is that a) it’s unlikely he’s being held in the female estate and b) his victim isn’t being gaslighted into calling him a woman.

Hard not to be cynical though, definitely.

I looked back to see what awful transphobia Jemima had written.

Seems she just thinks that trans women should be put to the same safeguarding as other males.

As do most right minded people.

You hate discrimination in all forms (apparently) but want us to treat TW differently from other males even though there is evidence that some TW commit male pattern crimes.

No, women and children deserve better than that.

I checked back this morning too. I thought it must have been horrific.

No. Jemima really did just say those males should be held to the same standard of safeguarding protocols as other males.

It is clear that justelling is actually discriminating against this group of males but they cannot see it. Because justelling doesn’t seem to understand discrimination. At all.

So justelling actively positively discriminates against that group of males by asserting they should be treated, contrary to evidence at all, as female for safeguarding. The evidence clearly points out they are just as high a risk.

This is where misinformation gets us. People who seem to only understand things on an emotional level keep spreading it, while vilifying people who see it very clearly.

This thread is a great example of that.

The awful transphobia really is nothing more than saying "no, I don't agree a male ever transforms into something other than a male when they self identify as trans, and so do not agree that they should be granted different access and privilege to other males. And that to ask this, is a massive infringement of privacy, dignity, safety and equality of access to females as a sex class, which is not ok. The needs of those male people for alternatives to male sex based provision should be met without taking from females.".

That's it.

That's all.

Cue the melt downs.

Love your post, @Anactor I'd quote, but you've already quoted so I can't. (Is that an app thing?)

Bryson hasn’t changed his name either. He was charged as Adam Graham.

For a bit while awaiting trial & getting to see trainee beauticians naked & accusing them of being ‘phobes if they disagreed with him, he was known as Annie something or other.

That still wasn’t his legal name. He only settled on Isla after he’d been asked to leave the beautician course, shedding another identity to leave the evidence trail behind.

I've come to the conclusion it's so they can say "nothing to see here".

There is still time to have a gender epiphany before sentencing when they hope it will all have gone quiet.

It was him answering his TWAW persona. People wonder why women fear these characters who try to deceive. Buffalo Bill vibes.

I feel like there is so much internalised homophobia at play in the TW group. Also men who simply want to be more expressive with clothes, make up etc. Many must feel that they were overlooked as kids, didn't get to try out fancy clothes etc like girls did. Of course its all stereotypes but there's something there.

I know boys who were so strictly controlled by the toxic masculinity of their fathers that to want something different was outright rejection but they craved attachment.

But, the overwhelming majority of dangerous men who become "prison converted TW's" only to gain special treatment, transfer to women's estate or access the vulnerable. These are just dangerous men exploiting a loophole, they aren't even genuine AGP's I don't think. They use the 'trans' community to hide behind.

I know of gender dysphoric adult men who take a female name, feminine clothes etc but NEVER claim to be a woman. These people are being used too. But women and children and vulnerable, confused young people must be safeguarded from these men. The trans butcher abducting a little girl is a case in point.

"He only settled on Isla after he’d been asked to leave the beautician course, shedding another identity to leave the evidence trail behind."

This is really key, isn't it.

It is all about the loopholes created with that magical paperwork that then hides changes because, privacy.

It is such a huge red flag and yet it shows where purely ideological thinking gets a government left without the information it needs. It is like medical records not recording sex at all unless a patient wants it recorded. That has already led to trans people having poor outcomes when they either cannot give the facts due to being unconscious or to their wilful or uninformed choices to not disclose.