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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Girl abducted in Galashiels appears to have been held by transwoman

1000 replies

ArabellaScott · 07/02/2023 19:27

reduxx.info/scotland-crossdressing-butcher-arrested-in-case-of-missing-child/

Only source so far, but appears to be potentially corroborated by the Sun:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/21308457/cops-search-butchers-and-forensics-scour-for-evidence/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
65
ismu · 09/02/2023 16:28

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:23

don't think this whole issue has been something either of you were frothing about in 1999

I definitely gave a fuck about children being abducted in 1999

Of course you did .
But did you froth about gender identity?

spiderplantparty · 09/02/2023 16:30

@ismu I think you may be talking about another poster. All I mentioned was that I don't think the assertion that anti trans feeling is present everywhere on mumsnet was correct. I stand by that - there are many areas on mumsnet where trans issues are not discussed.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:32

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:28

Of course you did .
But did you froth about gender identity?

It was called transsexualism back then.

The change from ultra rare psychological condition to political ideology is the fracture point.

I’ve only ever ‘frothed’ about nonces and child abusers (including those who abuse via medical experimentation).

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 16:32

So go on @ismu name person who has changed sex. Not gender. So every cell in their body will have changed sex. It will have been all over the news. Or are you talking about the legal fiction of a GRC? In which case no, the person is still the sex they were borN, they’ve just got a special certificate which says they can be seen as the other sex for certain purposes.

what have people with DSD got to do with trans issues? They are not trans.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:33

So weird that people turn up here specifically to cape for kidnappers, kiddy fiddlers and rapists.

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:38

spiderplantparty · 09/02/2023 16:30

@ismu I think you may be talking about another poster. All I mentioned was that I don't think the assertion that anti trans feeling is present everywhere on mumsnet was correct. I stand by that - there are many areas on mumsnet where trans issues are not discussed.

Sorry, I meant @ShireWifeofNigelFarage...
I have actually found GC comments on the doghouse, in a discussion about XL bullies. Confused

TheBiologyStupid · 09/02/2023 16:41

nauticant · 09/02/2023 12:16

Is this the Google AI we've attracted to this thread?

If so, it's a dodgy beta release...

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:42

TheBiologyStupid · 09/02/2023 16:41

If so, it's a dodgy beta release...

Is it half term?

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 16:44

"Why do you hate them now, or are you just generally bigoted?"

The hyperbole is outstanding in this post. Really.... you take our discussion to be us 'hating' trans people? What evidence do you have for that? Please lay it out clearly so that everyone reading can follow your logic?

"both of you appear to believe that people who were born and registered as male can't ever change and will always be male."

Correct. They will always be male. That can never change. It doesn't mean that I hate trans people.

What a great example though of the cognitive distortions that are used by extreme trans activists to stop discussion and to attempt to emotionally manipulate readers.

Readers, this is both catastrophising and polarisation. The desired outcome is the same. This poster wants this discussion to be silenced.

"This is wrong legally and has been for over 20 years and I cba to fact check the actual date because I'm sure you'll do it eagerly. It's also wrong medically as there have always been intersex people who've been assigned a gender at birth which has been wrong."

A legal fiction, which there is much discussion about however it seems that even there there are exceptions. Males are not considered their GRC 'sex' for every instance. So therefore, it is pretty easy to argue that even the law recognises that these males are still male... never able to change.

And your distraction into people with differences of sex development have nothing to do with males transitioning. And is offensive to those with those medical conditions.

You are obviously just as ill informed as justelling and you are repeating trope that has been used by extreme trans activists to prop up unevidenced assertions. We also know that this is out of step with other trans people who DO understand they can never change sex and who DON'T leverage other people's medical conditions as an explainer for their own desire to be considered the opposite sex.

So, tell us please, why do you believe that you speak for the many reasonable trans people who disagree with you?

"I don't think this whole issue has been something either of you were frothing about in 1999."

No. Back then I didn't have males trying to convince me that they were, in fact, female.

"The most interesting thing about this whole debate is why it's arisen. Trans people have always existed and were well tolerated for years."

Why has it arisen? Because over the past half a decade or more, a small group of very extreme and ideologically driven people have pushed the boundaries of the interpretation of the law.

Did you realise that when the GRA was first discussed the applications that are now being sought and forced through were actually denied would ever be considered under the Act.

So you now declaring that this is not a 'new issue' is clearly false. You could look up the Hansard records for the time, like many of us have.

It is the absolutist declarations that are new. And extreme.

A bit like ...

"Why do you hate them now, or are you just generally bigoted?"

Yeah... really. Keep pulling out the cognitive distortions. We are really familiar with the tactics now, but it is fun to point them out to readers as they begin their journey on how to work out fact from emotionally manipulated fiction.

PSNonsense · 09/02/2023 16:44

The most interesting thing about this whole debate is why it's arisen. Trans people have always existed and were well tolerated for years.
Why do you hate them now, or are you just generally bigoted?

They have been tolerated, because they are men who liked to dress/act in a way that they perceive to be like a woman. But they were men.

Now that's not good enough. They are now literal women, who should have the right to go wherever they choose and into spaces segregated by sex for women (actual ones), including prisons, changing rooms, rape crisis centres. The Emperor's New Clothes have taken over and gaslighting in plain sight has reached ridiculous levels.

You can't change sex. Men cannot become women. If you think that's bigoted then I couldn't give any fucks.

And that's just the start of it.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 16:46

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:28

Of course you did .
But did you froth about gender identity?

Do you mean to be so misogynist in your posting?

Frothing? Really???

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:47

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 16:46

Do you mean to be so misogynist in your posting?

Frothing? Really???

Zir can’t help it Helle the misogyny is baked in!

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:52

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 16:32

So go on @ismu name person who has changed sex. Not gender. So every cell in their body will have changed sex. It will have been all over the news. Or are you talking about the legal fiction of a GRC? In which case no, the person is still the sex they were borN, they’ve just got a special certificate which says they can be seen as the other sex for certain purposes.

what have people with DSD got to do with trans issues? They are not trans.

It's really not as straightforward as you think, if you want to get into specifics then chromosomes are weird. Your sex is usually the same as the gender you're assigned at birth but sometimes it's not. There are many examples of people who have odd chromosomal characteristics and like so many things it's a spectrum. Most people are just male or female it all matches up,and we are happy. But some people aren't.

Girl abducted in Galashiels appears to have been held by transwoman
NecessaryScene · 09/02/2023 16:56

Ismu's like a weird time traveller. Can write a post backwards in time such that the thing they quote is a rebuttal to their post.

> > what have people with DSD got to do with trans issues?

> chromosomes are weird.

It's amazing.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:56

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:52

It's really not as straightforward as you think, if you want to get into specifics then chromosomes are weird. Your sex is usually the same as the gender you're assigned at birth but sometimes it's not. There are many examples of people who have odd chromosomal characteristics and like so many things it's a spectrum. Most people are just male or female it all matches up,and we are happy. But some people aren't.

This isn’t relevant to transgender people - unless you are arguing that everyone who wants to transition needs to first prove their karyotype doesn’t match their phenotype?

because I could get on board with that.

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 16:56

So I have questions @ismu
who assigns these genders?
What are the other sexes called?
are you referring to people with DSD when you ever to other sexes? If so, I really really think you need yo stop doing that. It’s offensive and dehumanising. All people with DSD are still either male or female.

KatMcBundleFace · 09/02/2023 16:58

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:32

It was called transsexualism back then.

The change from ultra rare psychological condition to political ideology is the fracture point.

I’ve only ever ‘frothed’ about nonces and child abusers (including those who abuse via medical experimentation).

Right, and it was extremely rare.

And no one thought sticking a dress on was what made you female. Navel gazing identity bollocks was just a wet dream of queer theorists......

Please take me back.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 17:00

ismu · 09/02/2023 16:52

It's really not as straightforward as you think, if you want to get into specifics then chromosomes are weird. Your sex is usually the same as the gender you're assigned at birth but sometimes it's not. There are many examples of people who have odd chromosomal characteristics and like so many things it's a spectrum. Most people are just male or female it all matches up,and we are happy. But some people aren't.

Please stop using people with differences of sex development to prop up your unevidenced claims.

Except for the very rare conditions which are difficult to judge, every person who has a difference in sex development is either male or female. Their conditions are actually dependent on their being that particular sex.

There different body variations, but still either male or female. No person in this world has working ovaries and testes.

It is offensive to keep pushing this as some evidence of 'trans' identities. If that was also the case, it would be very easy to then diagnose someone was being the 'opposite' sex. No such physical diagnosis exists. Otherwise it would be used.

KatMcBundleFace · 09/02/2023 17:00

How did we get from a allegedly noncey TW to DSDs.

Ah, it's after schools finished. Silly me.

Luckily tea time soon.

picklemewalnuts · 09/02/2023 17:00

People with DD prefer not to be brought into this debate, @ismu

They prefer not to be used as a gotcha weapon by TRA's.

They prefer to be called people with DSDs rather than intersex because every single one of them is male or female whether it was obvious at birth or not.

picklemewalnuts · 09/02/2023 17:03

Anyway Pigeon chess aside, sea lions aside,

I truly hope there are no more charges to bring.

If he is an oddity, can we start calling all men who wear dresses oddities? Or do we need to wait until they commit a crime?

Or- my preference- we can accurately refer to trans women, and trans identifying people, whether they've committed a crime or not.

And by the way, in the Dog House we can discuss castration freely!

TheBiologyStupid · 09/02/2023 17:07

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 16:42

Is it half term?

Next week for my DD, but it could well be in other places.

ismu · 09/02/2023 17:07

@ShireWifeofNigelFarage I didn't realise frothing at the mouth was gender specific! I would have associated that with rabies or being incoherent. That's a new mysogny but I guess as GC you are the experts, perhaps just contradicting you is misogynistic?

@Helleofabore you are wrong. It is possible to change sex because the gender you have been assigned at birth may be wrong. ( see intersex)
In most cases people don't want to do this. But since we don't understand the entire universe even now, there may be a physical cause yet to be discovered.
In any case if people identify strongly as a different gender whether or not they have surgery or medication, it shouldn't matter. There should be places which are safe for all people and we shouldn't tolerate any abuse, but also we can't posit everyone with a penis as a terrible danger to society. That's your son, partner, father, uncle... really? I feel that you just actually hate men.

Blister · 09/02/2023 17:11

"It is possible to change sex because the gender you have been assigned at birth may be wrong."
😂😂😂breathe, breathe😂😂rofl😂

Blister · 09/02/2023 17:12

Forget the fecking pigeons, the clownfish are doing a number.

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