Gender Critical Disputes - Radical Notion special edition free to read online

[IwantToRetire]

Cant say I have heard of Radical Notion. They say:

THE RADICAL NOTION was founded in 2020 to create a space for the resurgent wave of feminist thinking and activism. This not-for-profit magazine is run by an all-women collective of radical and socialist feminists. We are committed to the materialist analysis of sex-based oppression, and to challenging the material and symbolic structures of male dominance. This moment is a historic opportunity to deepen and widen the analysis of all aspects of women’s political condition, and its foundational role in all systems of extraction and domination.

We welcome words and images from women of all nationalities, classes, ethnicities and backgrounds to illuminate the meaning of feminist politics in their lives, and to create a global picture of this political moment. Our current battle, and the social, political and environmental unravellings we see all around us are, at their root, crises of patriarchy. We want to seize this moment to speak that truth.

theradicalnotion.org/gender-critical-disputes/

It seems quite expensive to subscribe but they have made this issue free to read online. A lot of it seems to be the ongoing antagonism (meaning the issues are real but seem to be motivated as much by personal fallouts) between radical feminist and socialist feminist gender critical women.

Some may remember this thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again and the revelation that WPUK seems to now be linked to the group Actual Gender Critical Left, who endlessly snipe about Karin Dansky and KJK.

Anyhow posting in case anyone wants to have a read.

Still not sure why some women think in the day of virtual opportunites to talk directly to other women, they need to go down the routed of "publishing" as though their ideas are somehow special and shouldn't be submitted to the rough and tumble on online forums like this one!

You are all aligning with, standing shoulder to shoulder with, talking to various unmentionables, don't ask me for evidence of this, or if you do I will say I will provide it then somehow forget/not bother, you'll just have to take my word for it because I said so.

Ah, knew I'd missed something!

Also:

What are you talking about? I answered all your questions several times. Why are you so dumb you can't tell that I've already answered your questions? It's not my fault if my answers have gone missing. Look, they're stupid questions anyway. Questions only a bigot would ask. Also I don't have time to answer questions or explain anything I've said. My dinner's ready!

Sorry, that was meant to quote @GailBlancheViola !

Jennifer James is basically persona non grata in GC for being an antisemite Corbynista and shady as fuck. I don't think she's even been involved in GC circles for at least 3 years.

Perfect, Beastly. Thank you for summarising so that I didn't have to read it.

It may have been that the threads I clicked on didn't form a representative sample.

But I visited, saw the same kind of "you're just prudes" shite I was already accustomed to hearing was Feminism™️, and saw the "buckethead" epithet being repeated vigorously. I went back to the safety of AIBU and did not return for another decade.

What are you talking about? I answered all your questions several times. Why are you so dumb you can't tell that I've already answered your questions? It's not my fault if my answers have gone missing. Look, they're stupid questions anyway. Questions only a bigot would ask. Also I don't have time to answer questions or explain anything I've said. My dinner's ready!

I was, for once, optimistic that we just might get those simple, straightforward questions answered @beastlyslumber but alas it was business as usual.

The lack of coherent, or indeed any answer, to simple questions is clearly a feature not a bug of this whole shit show.

Buckethead? WTF does this mean?

I say that part of feminism is learning how to not allow ourselves to be emotionally manipulated.

This 'insult, then accuse us of being mean for not apologising' approach also reminds me of 'negging' and 'cry bullying'.

It's bollocks, is what it is.

This is so true.

the rigid idea that only people from a group can make judgements or contributions about the treatment of that group.

Mmm, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the "only people from x group can judge" method (where people pride themselves on not thinking about linguistics, historical connotations etc for themselves- this irritates me) depends on the presumption that that group x is a hive-mind. A monolith, in fact. Just as mothers retain their personalities after giving birth, people can be from minority groups and also individuals. In fact, the assumption that people from x group will all think alike is itself a common form of bigotry!

If you pride yourself on just accepting that something is or isn't racism based on what someone told you, then how do you evaluate competing claims when person A from X ethnicity says something is racist, and person B from X ethnicity says it is not?

What usually happens is that people pick the person whose answer they find most convenient for their self-image, but it should be the explanation they find most convincing. They should want to know why something is racist! Further, they should be learning from these explanations and developing the personal skills to recognise unfairness, stereotyping and bigotry in the wild, on their own. Without constantly outsourcing their decisions to the audience or a friend, as if they are contestants on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire!

SHIRE WIVES OF FARAGE

Sounds like some kind of Mormon sex cult

Pretty excited about this, new, freshly hatched PoMo feminist analysis of the traditional phrase, ‘Not MY Nigel’.

He's not your Nigel, he's all mine.

I'm afraid to ask...And how would you know that????

I see there are many lining up to be his Shire Wife!

You are all living in dream land. you have no chance

He's mine!

An explanation from 2010 mumsnet. It seemed to occupy the same linguistic niche as "sheeple".

Bucketheads are basically stupid people who should stick their head in a bucket and STFU.

It’s an extreme form of ‘nothing about us, without us’ @NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision
And although ‘nothing about us without us’ is a brilliant and noble aim, you can see how it can be gamed - eg- how the Scottish government funded lobby organisations which agree with them, then say ‘we have included the women’s sector and they agree with us’.

See yesterdays thread re: trans lobby groups writing prison guidelines 😬

You never clarified exactly what they did or said to deserve that epithet @WinterDeWinter just threw out the accusation. Notably none of their posts were deleted, but you had a post deleted. All I got from your posts was that it is a-okay for you to define racism, to disagree with and question CRT, but no-one else.

Yes. As I repeatedly asked her, how does that work? How would she know what racism is to be able to decide that wasn't racist, when there are many people who disagree with her?

it should be the explanation they find most convincing.

yep. This was what I couldn’t be arsed to get into with the frothy poster because I’m really not going to explain myself to someone like that, but when using my judgement about what is or isn’t racist it’s not like I never consult the views of others. But I’m not going to think something is racist just because someone tells me it is, regardless of the colour of their skin. I need to know why. It would frankly be disrespectful not to expect people to be able to explain things because of their heritage. And of bloody course the views of someone with black or brown skin should carry more weight on this subject

but ultimately the views inside my head are my property and I am responsible for my views and actions. I can’t pass that onto others

I thought I would would go back and have a look at the threads from when the board first started in 2010.

It reminds me of the current Feminist Chat board in style and traffic numbers. And topics. I am sure then that those feminist posters from that era would like that board better than this one because it really does seem to be similar.

Mind you there are also more 'am I a feminist' threads than I expected.

Maybe the difference is that in 2010 with the very small group of posters on the board, there really wasn't much robust discussion, it seems Dittany was there on every thread (her posts are all gone now), and I rarely saw posts written to shame other women.

Maybe winter can show us when the posts shaming other women started?

And when the provocative posters started too. The ones who came on telling all the posters on a thread that they are [insert pejorative term]? The ones who come to name call while not adding any other contribution but shame.

Because it certainly seems to not be an issue back in those very nice days where people were discussing whether it was a good thing to wear a 'this is what a feminist looks like' t-shirt and 'am I a feminist' and 'what books should I read'. Maybe that is the issue. Some posters are on the wrong board and should be back on the board we were hived off if they wish to relive those days.

Perfectly done! You win the thread

This 'insult, then accuse us of being mean for not apologising' approach also reminds me of 'negging' and 'cry bullying'.

It's bollocks, is what it is.

It is. I believe I was correct in my original assessment of @WinterDeWinter and her posts.

This yours, Eresh?

What if the messenger is a rude, condescending prick who fails to back up any of their accusations though?