Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

[Vebrithien]

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

Thank you, all for your kind words.

Yes, it has been a shock.

I will be slightly more cautious, in terms of sharing on the year group WhatsApp group. However, I can't now delete the messages,.so the info is out there.

The school emails (as mine do), have a standard confidential information waffle at the bottom.

However, in matters of safeguarding, confidentiality cannot be promised. I consider this a safeguarding concern, hence I forwarded the emails to two parents who had expressed concerns, and had already been dismissed by the school.

plus I posted here, but with no names

@Vebrithien Arseholes! You've got them running scared. They are having to now deal with angry informed parents and they are pissed!

Keep up the good work

🍷🍫👍

It is legitimate to talk in general about issues that have happened in one school on a parents forum, especially if the case in question is likely to be replicated in other schools. We already know the same posters are up in other schools. No names have been used. No identifying information has been used.

If people can't talk in this way how can injustices ever be resolved? It's sort of the point of safeguarding - sharing information. Safeguarding is supposed to be for everyone but how can it be if you can't raise even the most general of anonymised concerns?

Some people really want to shut women up don't they.

Don't lose any sleep about the threat of defamation OP. It's a civil not a criminal matter and the police will send them packing.

It's an empty threat and an easy one to make because 'reporting' the matter to the police is free. Consulting libel lawyers is not. Libel claims are an expensive, lengthy and very specialist business. Lots of hurdles and technicalities to overcome. And a school, which has no legal standing itself, would be mad to embark on the PR car crash of spending hard pressed funds on establishing that an individual at the school has a claim against a parent. And a parent who was raising a reasonable concern - which they accepted as such by removing the poster!

Oh gosh.

I've just read the whole thread. Firstly, well done. Secondly, they are now seemingly trying to intimidate you and other parents.

It's perfectly legitimate for you to have a free and frank sharing of views with other parents and sharing the emails with those parents was necessary for the free and frank sharing of views on how to proceed/tackle the situation, they cannot police your or others private correspondence or ask you to delete as you haven't defamed the school (taking it here that you were factual in your communications and have not said anything that is false), you merely brought a matter to their attention (parents) which is in the interests of all parents, you took those legitimate concerns to the school, concerns that needed attention and which they then attended to - reinforcing that those concerns were legitimate.

Download the parent policy as a PP has already mentioned so that you have the current copy. I would also be tempted to ask them, in writing, for any copy of said policy that you have signed.

Any policy that the school may have in place is nothing more than a plan drafted by them/governing body/academy trust/LA (depending on the 'type' of school) to help guide it in managing or dealing with a particular matter.
It is neither prescriptive, nor enforceable and certainly does not supersede legislation. A parent - home agreement is not enforceable btw.

Perhaps ask them for their complaints procedure. It will be on the website (as required by law to be), but it may be an idea to actually ask for it. But that's just what I would do.

You did them a favour and this is how they respond? You could have gone above their heads about it, but you didn't.

You've stayed very calm. If it was me, I would be checking every single policy that they MUST have (must as in legal requirement) and checking that they complied with legislation, including their determined admission arrangements. But that's me, because I don't take kindly to threats.

Whatever you do, when you respond, you need to include what transpired in the phone call - you will need a paper trail.

And, not just now, but when the time is right, submit a Subject Access Request.

Defamation (alledged defamation) is not a police matter. I might just ask them to also detail the reasons for their allegations. You can't respond properly to an allegation of defamation (or anything else) without the reasons for the allegation clearly spelt out along with their EVIDENCE for such an accusation. Again, paper trail.

I'm cross on your behalf. Stay strong. Bullying is not acceptable.

hence I forwarded the emails to two parents who had expressed concerns
As they were interested parents how did anyone know you had forwarded the emails to them? Did they share them?

I am sure they would not have reported you to the school.

What good advice from
birchtreeglow · Yesterday 23:46

Oh, and because I would be furious about their threat to contact the police. (Nevermind that it's not a police matter), I would be asking them for contact details of their solicitor / legal representative. I might not do anything about it legally/with a solicitor, but I would be asking the school for the contact details so that they knew I would persue if necessary. A shot across their bow.

They clearly know as much about defamation as they do about equality law.

My thoughts exactly.

The point about potentially putting in a Subject Access Request above is a really good one.

You could always say that you are not, at this stage, considering making a SAR. Which makes it clear you know what one is and may do so at a later point if they continue with this nonsense.

Here’s the actual defamation stuff from the government website:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26

The police threat is proper BillyBullshit nonsense designed to scare you into submission.

Personally I would hang tight on doing anything at all, no deletions, no email replies. Preserve all comms with screenshots and make contact the Free Speech Union and see if you can get one of their legal team to tell the school to back off on your behalf.

You need to join but it’s a cheap, monthly fee and they’ve been very helpful to a number of GC feminists already.

freespeechunion.org/product/full-member/

£50 a year or half price concession rate

Honestly, I wouldn't say anything about a SAR at this moment. I wouldn't say anything about a SAR at this stage or even hint at one. I know this, don't sugest a SAR, really don't. Don't suggest. Don't do it - until the right time. And the right time will come.

Hard agree with birchtree. Any SAR should be launched without notice.

Re: social media policy - a quick Google suggests that whether WhatsApp is socail
media is a bit contentious.

However, I think you’d deffo be able to argue that it’s a messaging app, not a form of social media, and if the school wants messaging apps to be covered by the social media policy they should a) make it clear that messaging apps are included on the policy and b) be certain that any policy restrictions regarding parent to parent comms via messaging apps aren’t in breach of UK law.

The top hit I got on Google for ‘is whatsapp social media’ was image three (integreti)

Also: comparison of WhatsApp’s description on the Apple App Store with the descriptions for Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.

The WhatsApp description is clearly very different to the other 3:

OK, hands up I didn't see this before and I have not read the entire thread but bloody hell that poster.

I can see why they think children will giggle at 'sex' but that is no reason to drop the word. If they don't want to say that couldn't they say 'boy / girl' in that 'bubble'?

But as a disabled person I am furious they have used the image of someone sitting in a wheel chair, disability is much more than that.

Why not a more positive image? A paraolympian, a blind person, a child with one hand.

Why not have the poster embossed with Braille?

Why isn't it dyslexia friendly?

Why isn't it high contrast?

On top of that it is grossly inaccurate, if an adult turns up and starts playing in the playground with the children you don't want them to think that is normal. But the poster says 'age' and has a picture of an older person.

I've been to look at their website, they have NO accessibility options. Not one.

I'm really fucking fuming, sorry about the language but I'd expect a better poster from a 14 year old.

OP

Use any of my comments if you want.

One of them included the forwarded email in their own complaint 😱

Thank you all.

It's given me a lot to think about.

I won't be backing down. But likewise, I also can't risk being banned from the school site, however spurious their reasons.

I might also include a small comment about how:

WhatsApp itself is not mentioned in their parental conduct policy, and it is considered primarily a messaging service, rather than social media

Fuck me the cowardly bullying bastards. I’m appalled at the culture of a school that firstly allowed itself to be captured, argued the toss with you until it was clear that they were completely in the wrong and then clearly had discussions amongst senior staff into how they can get back at you for causing them to look so fucking stupid even though that was entirely their own doing. To threaten a parent with the police because they dared to challenge them and even - gasp - discussed it with other parents. Just think about the mindset of people who’d that.

im outraged on your behalf OP

Thanks @Theeyeballsinthesky

You put into words how I feel + anxious about being banned from the school site.

It's so awful.

The day to day classes and teachers in the school are lovely, my DD is doing well and adores going to school. Her current class teacher is one of my past pupils, from a long time ago, she is happy with how DD is progressing.

And yet, I've been vilified and made to feel awful, because I raised some concerns, which were initially ignored and dismissed, so passed this information onto a group of parents whose children may be affected by this issue.

Am alternating between anxiety and spitting feathers.

Right, need to get DD up. Got to walk her to school this morning 😬

There are all brilliant points @sashh .

Thankfully, the posters have been removed (I will be able to check this next week).

But I agree with everything you have said.

un mumsnetty hugs OP. You have got this!! 💐